K S
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1)
I recently played with a group that insisted that the Arborec spy's ability (sacrifice this rep to take control of an opponents rep during voting)is permanent - the opponent kept his rep for future votings, but it would still be under Arborec control if he would ever chooes again.
That just didn't make sense to me...?

2)
The rules for SC Production says that you can't use it to build a SD.
I always read this as you can't use it only to build a SD in a system that doesn't already contain a SD (it's clear in the txt on the card) but I never had a problem with people building a second SD in a multiplanet system with SC Production.
...I might be wrong on this..?
 
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Kristobal wrote:
1)
I recently played with a group that insisted that the Arborec spy's ability (sacrifice this rep to take control of an opponents rep during voting)is permanent - the opponent kept his rep for future votings, but it would still be under Arborec control if he would ever chooes again.
That just didn't make sense to me...?

It's a one-time effect. You get the opposing rep for that vote, and that's it.

If it was for all future votes, it would be impossible to keep it secret, since it would have a different back and everyone would know you are using it.

Quote:
2)
The rules for SC Production says that you can't use it to build a SD.
I always read this as you can't use it only to build a SD in a system that doesn't already contain a SD (it's clear in the txt on the card) but I never had a problem with people building a second SD in a multiplanet system with SC Production.
...I might be wrong on this..?

You cannot build a Space Dock using the Production SC, regardless of whether there is already a dock there.

This is answered in the FAQ (on page 9, I believe, but I'm looking at version 2.3 and not sure if the page number changed in version 2.5):

Q: Can a player build a Space Dock when executing the primary ability of the Production Strategy?
A: No.

(The same would also apply to the secondary, of course).
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1) thx - in their ruling the original owner of the rep kept it, and it if he chose to send it again it would still be under Arborec control, made no sense!?! especially when the player kept sending the controlled rep to voting becaus he did not care about the outcome and it was his only boduguard - I did put a stop to that though, insisting that he send another rep and tried to manipulate the voting in some kind of way and maybe earn a TG or two...

2) read the FAQ on the SD-thing - it's clear
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Bob Frichtel

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sigmazero13 wrote:
Kristobal wrote:
1)
I recently played with a group that insisted that the Arborec spy's ability (sacrifice this rep to take control of an opponents rep during voting)is permanent - the opponent kept his rep for future votings, but it would still be under Arborec control if he would ever chooes again.
That just didn't make sense to me...?

It's a one-time effect. You get the opposing rep for that vote, and that's it.

If it was for all future votes, it would be impossible to keep it secret, since it would have a different back and everyone would know you are using it.


I disagree;

The lore of the Arborec suggest that they literally take over the dead and reanimate as them. So this spy (in my understanding) kills the opposition representative and controls their votes from here on out. This means the player has still "lost" a representative unless they wish to give their votes to the Arborec.

Consider, also; the Arborec loose this spy in the process.

This is similar to how the Mentak's trade supply stealing racial does more to prevent players from stockpiling than it does to let the Mentak steal.
So too the Arborec's spy does more to limit the opponent's hand. They can still use that converted representative (and they still might die by another more vicious opponent) but their votes go as the Arborec player wishes if they are used.

I think this is better handled that the player who lost the Representative gives it to the Arborec, when the Arborec wants to use it, they use their spy who then is revealed as the opponents Rep instead.

This is how I will interpret it at my table.
 
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I'll submit the question to FFG for the official answer I'd be surprised, though, if they said it was for more than just one vote
 
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Here's the response I got back from Corey:


My Question:
"I have a question about the Arborec Spy "Letani Miasmiala". The ability reads:


Choose another player. If he chose a Councilor, you may kill this Spy to control his Councilor during voting.


For how long does the Arborec player control the opposing Councilor? For just that vote, or for the remainder of the game?"


Corey's Response:
"This ability controls that councilor only for this single vote."
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Thx
 
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Bob Frichtel

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Nice to have an official answer, and I'll play that way;

But then this only leads to greater inconsistencies with the narrative of this race (on the back of their racial card). And I've freakishly learned more about the Arborec than I'd ever care to know.

We know that the Arborec Symphony is comprised of many species. One of which solves their matter of interacting with other races: the Dirzuga. Dirzuga are literally reanimated corpses of dead Humans, Letnev, Winnu, or even Xxcha. These bodies are host to Arzuga fungi, which then operate as the symbiont of the corpse and a new plantlike entity. This permits them to speak with other races; and hold a place in their councils.
Two of their representatives are clearly listed as Dirzuga; Dirzuga Ohao and Dirzuga Mantasa.

The last one is a Letani; Letani Miasmiala. We can read the following on the back of the race card:
"Physically, the Letani are the largest sentient beings yet discovered in the galaxy, their bodies resembling a kraken-shaped mushroom crossed with a monstrous carnivorous flower. The Letani are each uniquely capable of embodying a powerful instance of the Symphony (and therefore closest to an "individual" within the Arborec society) which may act as an(sic) harmonic nexus for Arborec organisms in near proximity. All ships in the Arborec fleet are based around the presence of at least one (some ships as many as five) Letani orchestrating the unity of Arborec lifeforms crewing the vessel.
Once a Letani returns to the embrace of Nestphar's prime Symphonny, its experiences are reconnected and absorbed into the Arborec, as a data-capsule would be reconnected to a mainframe."

So; apparently the Letani also have an ability to control the fate of another race upon death?
If they are also the main nexus of a ship; can't they also do this in space combat upon death?

See what I mean; the more we unravel this narrative the more ridiculous it gets.
Miasmiala should have been an Arzuga spore cloud/other symbiotic Arborec capable of killing a representative and becoming them.
or
Letani lore should have explained what these massive creatures are capable of. Perhaps they simply release a poison cloud upon death to creatures in proximity to temporarily control them, but then how are they in control of them if they no longer have a sentient mind. How do they hook back up to the Nestphar Symphony in this state?

Or am I missing a key logic component?
Sometimes game theory makes more sense than narratives; but let's be honest, nothing about TI3 is a balanced game. And everything is about the narratives.
The card easily could have said:
"Choose another player. If he chose a Councilor, you may kill this Spy to control his Councilor during voting this round."

But hey, thanks for getting an official answer!
 
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Narratives are important in a game like this, but any game ruling can be explained by narrative in one form or another. I find the mechanics of the game, thus, are most important in terms of balance (I don't mean exact 100% balance), more than exactly trying to match every nuance of the flavor.
 
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