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Subject: Translation (badly) needed rss

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Marco Lippolis
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cry I have just received this game from Germany and it looks ]gorgeous!

Any chance of an English translation?

Thanks a lot
 
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Ava Jarvis
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Working on it, slo-o-o-owly. There's a lot of new stuff here, more than in either the previous expansion or the original game.

Some highlights, to whet your tastes:

- The enemy is released after you defeat his three henchmen. But the henchmen and some other creatures add to the "experience line" of the Verdammten (yes, he's got a board now) when revealed. So there are two things to worry about here with the enemy---plus the number of his life points is equal to the number of black cubes on his experience line. It goes up to 11. At 11, the game is automatically lost by everybody.

- The henchmen and some other creatuers have a special penalty when they defeat you---you get a black experience point in an ability line of your choice (magic, melee, ranged). This is both good and bad... bad in that you can only add black experience points ever after in that line, and all colored cubes you would have gotten in that line convert to black. Black experience cubes mean that you're on the side of the Verdammten and now there's player combat, I believe, if you've turned evil. And because you're evil, you can't use some of the better weapons/armor against the Verdammten. And you can't fight the Verdammten in the ability that you have black experience cubes on. No worries, there's ways to get rid of black cubes. As for the good, I've forgotten what it is....

- Items can now be traps by the Verdammten.

- There are special black weapons. They only bring you black experience points in their respective abilities (a ranged crossbow, for instance). If you have a black experience cube, I think you're required to pick one of these up. And of course, they probably can't be used against the Verdammten, since you probably have a black experience cube in that ability line anyways...

- Each of the special rooms (the ones with names) have a different ability. You will want some kind of reference card for that.

- This is more of a traditional dungeon crawl than the other games in this series, since you lay out the Underworld as you explore it. Rooms all get little PA markers.

- The Gorgon is extremely evil.
 
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Robert Martin
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So is there a "dungeon master" player, or are the players all still heroes?
 
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Ava Jarvis
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No DM, everyone's still heroes. With the opportunity to become dark heroes and need to engage in duels with good heroes, although I still need to translate the requirements for duels.
 
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Marco Lippolis
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to Ava Jarvis

Thank you very much for what you are doing!

I bought this game because:

I like the other two of the series
I like dungeon games
I like the opportunity to play it on your own

But when I opened the box I war horrified by the rule book! I was expecting something quite simple, since it's also meant to be an expansion to another game. Instead the rules seem quite long and complicated.

Take as long as you need and thank you againg for your efforts

Marco
 
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Jason Saumer
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As I also badly needed to start playing my copy I took a shot at translating the rulebook into English this weekend and uploaded the file here tonight. There are probably some mistakes but hopefully it will be useful in at least getting us non-German readers started playing. The abilities of the Heroes can be found under the Hero entry in the Glossary.
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Lutz STEPPONAT
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Hallo,
where did you upload the file. i couldnt find.
Greetings
coolLutz
 
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Ava Jarvis
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Lutz, it might take a while for the BGG admins to approve the file, then it will appear.

Jason, thanks for doing this! I have been under far more load during the holidays that I realized, so haven't been able to continue very far in my own translation.
 
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Jason Saumer
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The file is now online. If anybody spots a mistake that I have made please post! In particular some areas that I was not clear about were:

-The difference between unnamed area tiles and passageway tiles. Unnamed areas get an adventure marker, and passageways do not, but which tiles are which? I think that the passageway tiles show a "pathway" of some kind connecting its exits whereas the unnamed areas do not.

-I believe that the rules state that a hero gains a black cube in a skill each time they successfully use that skill if it already has a black cube. I think this is just saying that any colored EC normally earned will convert to a black experience cube instead, but one could take it to mean that a black cube is always earned even if the reward granted would not be an experience cube, and the black cube would be a "bonus" reward.

-How many black cubes the heroes discard when the Verdammte is defeated (when playing a combined game). I believe the rules say "up to 1 cube" but if you can opt to lose all your black cubes when moving out of the Underworld, it makes sense to me that you should be able to lose them all when the Verdammnte is gone and the Underworld is closed off for good.
 
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Marco Lippolis
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Jason,

yesterday I downloaded and printed your big effort. Thank you very much!

I have just tried around 30 turns of a 2 hero game (taking the part of both), while still reading here and there the rules. I have encountered a few problems and/or doubts, but I want to try and read them again carefully before posting any questions. The reason may not be in your work, but maybe my hurry in trying the game.

Now that they are available I'm sure Mr Stepponat will take a look at them and spot any mistakes.

Thank you again

Lippo
 
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Ava Jarvis
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Torbin_Bequette wrote:

-The difference between unnamed area tiles and passageway tiles. Unnamed areas get an adventure marker, and passageways do not, but which tiles are which? I think that the passageway tiles show a "pathway" of some kind connecting its exits whereas the unnamed areas do not.


Unnamed areas should be unnamed rooms. Passageway tiles have thin pathways that connect the exits (bridges or sidewalks or hallways or whatnot). They correspond to the normal game (which can't have encounters on them), while the rooms correspond to the numbered round field points in the normal game (which can have tiles on them).

Quote:
I believe that the rules state that a hero gains a black cube in a skill each time they successfully use that skill if it already has a black cube. I think this is just saying that any colored EC normally earned will convert to a black experience cube instead, but one could take it to mean that a black cube is always earned even if the reward granted would not be an experience cube, and the black cube would be a "bonus" reward.


I believe it's that the cube earned converts to a black experience cube. The rules somewhere else state pretty much state this with a direct translation---if you would earn a colored EW, it converts to a sEW. And to me it doesn't make sense that you would get more dark experience points just for using a skill successfully, since the dark experience points still count as experience points, and that would boost a hero up too quickly.

 
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Werner Bär
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Quote:
-The difference between unnamed area tiles and passageway tiles. Unnamed areas get an adventure marker, and passageways do not, but which tiles are which?

Best take a look at the tiles before the first game. Count the PA markers, and search for that many fitting tiles.

Quote:
-I believe that the rules state that a hero gains a black cube in a skill each time they successfully use that skill if it already has a black cube.

It's badly worded in the original german rules. But i'm sure the intention is that you earn black cubes only instead of coloured cubes.

Quote:
-How many black cubes the heroes discard when the Verdammte is defeated (when playing a combined game).

Error in the translation.
Each hero looses all but one black cube when he leaves the underworld. There is no difference between leaving voluntary, or leaving after the Damned One is defeated.
 
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Jason Saumer
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Thanks for the clarifications! Another question - am I to presume that when playing a combined game, the actual winner is the player who defeats the Nameless or the Dragon? We tried a combined 3 player game last night, and as one player was clearly on his way to beating Verdammnte another player escorted Hades back to the throne room, grabbed the Trident and ran ahead to kill the Dragon very quickly after the other player beat the Verdammnte.
 
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Werner Bär
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Quote:
Another question - am I to presume that when playing a combined game, the actual winner is the player who defeats the Nameless or the Dragon? We tried a combined 3 player game last night, and as one player was clearly on his way to beating Verdammnte another player escorted Hades back to the throne room, grabbed the Trident and ran ahead to kill the Dragon very quickly after the other player beat the Verdammnte.


Yes, the main goal is to kill either the dragon or the Nameless One.
Unless you play the shorter game variant.

Note that the player who kills the Damned One may claim either a jewel (key to the tower of the Nameless One) or the Trident of Hades for his victory. If he doesn't claim the trident, it is discarded (as is the Mail of Persepone). So the only player who can attack the Dragon with the trident is the one which killed the Damned One. Other players need to do one of the dragon quests.

So in your example, the other player can't attack the dragon with the trident. However, he could have attacked the dragon or the nameless one with another weapon, if he already completed a (dragon/kings) quest.

BTW: I think the proper name for the last variant isn't 'infinite history', but 'never ending story'.
 
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Lutz STEPPONAT
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Hallo,
my last post, before Christmas, disappeared in the black hole of my computer. (first writting in word, than copy and send as post) I ve learned! Frustration is gone.
Jason, you did a great Job and i have read the first pages and found the following:
Phase 1: Extending the Underworld
The active player draws one face down map tile from the stack if an exit exists on the tile they currently occupy.

Please change this sentence in:
The active player may draw one face down ...
Because a lot of people understand the german sentence wrong (your translation is correct)
To draw a tile is not a must! The order is:
first play a new map tile (if possible)
second move your hero
third take your actions
In your turn, if you want to draw and to place a new map tile you have to do this first.
If you want to move your hero first, thereafter, you can take your actions, but not draw a new tile.
If you want to take your actions first, thereafter, you cannot move or draw a new tile.

Weapons and Armor
Weapons and Armor are Items that must be carried. Their use does not have to be announced, however.
Each hero may carry exactly 1 Armor Item (plus a shield and/or helmet), and exactly 1 weapon (plus „combinable“ weapons, see counters). Extra weapons and armor can be discarded.

This is not correct in the german rules.
You can carry as much weapons and armor as you want (but you must have an empty item box), but you can only use one for each combat skill or additional lives.
You can carry three swords, but you can use only one to increase your close combat skill.
You can carry three armors, but you can use only one to get additional lives.

Thanks again to Jason. I finished a new set of counters for RotH, a new tale. Now i am testing this new set. If you want, you can get one for free, when produced by Pegasus. A small present from me for a great effort by you.
Next days i will read your rules, more exactly.

A happy new year, luck and health for you all.
Lutz
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Robert Martin
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LutzSt wrote:
Hallo,
my last post, before Christmas, disappeared in the black hole of my computer. (first writting in word, than copy and send as post) I ve learned! Frustration is gone.


You can also use GMail for this purpose. When you compose a new email, it automatically saves it every few seconds as a draft. When you're done you can just copy the text and discard the draft.

Marvelous game, by the way.
 
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Lutz STEPPONAT
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Thank you for the hint and thank you for the compliment.
coolLutz
 
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Jason Saumer
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Quote:
Note that the player who kills the Damned One may claim either a jewel (key to the tower of the Nameless One) or the Trident of Hades for his victory. If he doesn't claim the trident, it is discarded (as is the Mail of Persepone). So the only player who can attack the Dragon with the trident is the one which killed the Damned One. Other players need to do one of the dragon quests.

So in your example, the other player can't attack the dragon with the trident. However, he could have attacked the dragon or the nameless one with another weapon, if he already completed a (dragon/kings) quest.


Ah yes - we did get that part wrong when we played.

Quote:
BTW: I think the proper name for the last variant isn't 'infinite history', but 'never ending story'.


That does sound better
 
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Jason Saumer
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LutzSt wrote:

Phase 1: Extending the Underworld
The active player draws one face down map tile from the stack if an exit exists on the tile they currently occupy.

Please change this sentence in:
The active player may draw one face down ...
Because a lot of people understand the german sentence wrong (your translation is correct)
To draw a tile is not a must! The order is:
first play a new map tile (if possible)
second move your hero
third take your actions
In your turn, if you want to draw and to place a new map tile you have to do this first.
If you want to move your hero first, thereafter, you can take your actions, but not draw a new tile.
If you want to take your actions first, thereafter, you cannot move or draw a new tile.


I'll change this to make it more clear that drawing a tile is optional, but must be done before movement or actions.

LutzSt wrote:
Weapons and Armor
Weapons and Armor are Items that must be carried. Their use does not have to be announced, however.
Each hero may carry exactly 1 Armor Item (plus a shield and/or helmet), and exactly 1 weapon (plus „combinable“ weapons, see counters). Extra weapons and armor can be discarded.

This is not correct in the german rules.
You can carry as much weapons and armor as you want (but you must have an empty item box), but you can only use one for each combat skill or additional lives.
You can carry three swords, but you can use only one to increase your close combat skill.
You can carry three armors, but you can use only one to get additional lives.


That is more consistant with the other games I thought it was a bit strange that the rule changed (and guessed that I had probably made a mistake in translating).

LutzSt wrote:
Thanks again to Jason. I finished a new set of counters for RotH, a new tale. Now i am testing this new set. If you want, you can get one for free, when produced by Pegasus. A small present from me for a great effort by you.


Thanks to you for creating one of our family's favorite games - I would love to have the new counters! surprise

I appreciate everybody's input on the translation!!
 
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