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Subject: Okay, I'll bite... rss

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Isaac Marx
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...how exactly does one win without getting a Processing Vessel license early on? I've played twice now, and both times the person who got a Processing Vessel license within the first two rounds ended up with a decisive victory. It's just way more efficient at generating funds than any other license, especially early in the game when money is at a premium.

If I had answer my own question, I would guess that the best strategy would be to bid up the Processing Vessel to make sure whoever bought it would be limited in the early Launch Boats/Captain phases (ie bid it high enough that whoever gets it can't launch a boat in the first round of the game). Since everyone was new to the game we generally let the Processing Vessel go for very close to the minimum bid due to a reluctance to give up our starting funds.
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Joel Eddy
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Off the top of my head Cod + Shrimp.
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Jeff Kayati
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First, I'd make sure that I'm playing the rules for Processing Vessel correctly. Limited plays for me, but I don't see any one strategy being dominant.

So make sure:

Each boat with fish only "processes" one crate of fish each turn

Each turn, you only trade one crate for X cards. X dependant on the number of licenses that you have.

You don't count crates on the Processing Vessel license as victory points at the end of the game.
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Isaac Marx
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Yes, we were playing with all the correct rules. I just don't see how you can generate funds more quickly and efficiently than the Processing Vessel without VERY lucky card draws. Once you get more than one boat launched, the Processing vessel generates anywhere from 2-4 additional money per turn (depending on the card you draw) vs. 1-3 for any other draw bonus; additionally, one money is in the form of a fish crate which means you'll have less need to discard useful boat cards to buy stuff. This advantage cannot be overstated, especially in the early game when boat cards are a scarce resource. Additionally, the Processing Vessel allows you to avoid inefficient accumulation of fish by processing them early in the game and then letting them accumulate later in the game when you have plenty of money in your hand. The Cod/Shrimp combo mentioned above requires you to have the correct boats in your hand in order to launch and does not avoid the accumulation problem.

Right now I don't see any other option except making the recipient of the Processing Vessel license pay through the nose for it.
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Isaac Marx
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Another advantage of the Processing Vessel I forgot to mention is that the ability snowballs as the game progresses and you launch more boats, as opposed to the other licenses which only improve when you acquire more licenses (the Lobster license excepted, which is why Processing Vessel and Lobster is a killer combination).
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Joel Eddy
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You probably aren't making people pay enough for them in the early game. If the Proc Vessels come out late, they are not as strong. If they come out early, make them pay through the nose. Shrimp too

Salvage Yards are sometimes as powerful as Proc Vessels. We've had people win without a single Proc Vessel license. Going on about 15 plays so far.
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Jeff Kayati
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I played a four player game on Saturday. First turn player with the Processing Vessel came in last. Winner was Shrimp + Lobster combo.

But hey, believe what ya want. devil
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Isaac Marx
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Quote:
You probably aren't making people pay enough for them in the early game. If the Proc Vessels come out late, they are not as strong. If they come out early, make them pay through the nose. Shrimp too

Salvage Yards are sometimes as powerful as Proc Vessels. We've had people win without a single Proc Vessel license. Going on about 15 plays so far.


Yes, I think the lopsided scores were a result of us not understanding how to value the licenses. I certainly would not let someone get a cheap Processing Vessel early in the game in the future I hope that as we accumulate more plays then the game will balance out a little bit more.
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Edgard Massot
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Sure it is good the processing vessel but in the early turns you are getting one more card and losing one VP. Tuna and Lobster each give you a card every turn also with no vp loss, so in the first rounds they are almost the same.

It's what you do next that will make it work. My last game started with Lobster Tuna and soon I was able to get another Lobster and was drawing 3 extra cards per round wich was not only more money but more card selection.


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Justin Wertz
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eekamouse wrote:
Off the top of my head Cod + Shrimp.


I can honestly agree with this. This held true for the first game we ever played last night.

I thought for sure, as the game was progressing that my opponent, who got the Processing Vessel license on Round 1 was going to win. I ended up with Cod + Shrimp, and kept launching boats and watched as they all filled. I really felt helpless, until the end when we counted up VP's. I was astonished that I ended up winning with a 15 point margin.

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Isaac Marx
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Quote:
Sure it is good the processing vessel but in the early turns you are getting one more card and losing one VP. Tuna and Lobster each give you a card every turn also with no vp loss, so in the first rounds they are almost the same.


I have to disagree with you on this point. Since a game will have more than four rounds, using early fish crates as money is more efficient than leaving them on the boat as victory points. You could probably process every single fish crate for the first 4-5 turns and still end up with full boats at the end of the game. Any boat with 4 crates on it is just taking up space until the end of the game.
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Matt Riddle
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Isaac, I appreciate your question.
Ben and I intend to stay out of strategy threads as a general rule as to not provide "the answer".
If you ever have specific questions though, feel free to geekmail either of us. We would be happy to give you our take, but would rather not influence the strategy discussion.

PV is a great card. So is Lobster. And Tuna. And Cod. And Shrimp. whistle
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Nick Z
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I have won every game using my Tuna strategy!! I'm really in love with this game!
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Isaac Marx
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riddlen wrote:
Isaac, I appreciate your question.
Ben and I intend to stay out of strategy threads as a general rule as to not provide "the answer".
If you ever have specific questions though, feel free to geekmail either of us. We would be happy to give you our take, but would rather not influence the strategy discussion.

PV is a great card. So is Lobster. And Tuna. And Cod. And Shrimp. whistle

I appreciate this approach - I'm not looking for "the answer," just trying to generate some discussion This thread has definitely got me thinking about how to optimize my gameplay beyond just the choice of licenses.
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cory peacock
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I'm enjoying this thread quite a bit. Honestly, I'm quite torn. I really want to discover this game on my own (that is, not discuss strategy here on BGG). But I also want to avoid falling into the trap of "group think" in my game group (read: my wife and I).

My wife is convinced that the Processing Vessel approach is dominant. She played it in game 1 and won convincingly. I played it in game 2 and doubled her score. Both games 2 player.

I'm sure this isn't the only winning approach, but so far it has been very strong and an irresistible early option in both games. I'm glad to see that other players are finding other approaches. Can't wait to derail the PV approach.
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Mark Jimenez
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I am also primarily playing 2p vs my wife. In our last game, I did a turn 1 Processing Vessel License, then Shrimp after that, followed by a mix of single other licenses (minus Cod). Late game, I bid high for a 3rd Shrimp in favor of Cod.

Wife went with multiple Cods and a Lobster mainly and (I think) a turn 3 Processing Vessel, with a late Tuna.

I was ahead on boats and processing early. She didn't have the resources to exercise the 2xCaptain and 2xBoats, but towards the end game she utilized both to good extent and passed me up on boats quickly, while I was slogging along at one boat at a time with no Cod. Once she got going, she was getting into a cycle in which the Cods were giving her cards for Captains - and the long standing Lobster and late arrival Tuna plus PV gave her the hand she needed for next turn.

In retrospect, I think I should have denied her the turn 3 Processing Vessel License, or at least made her really pay for it.

Great game, looking to do another base game tonight.
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TC Petty III
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The downside to the processing vessel is the use of Crates, which are essentially VPs to receive extra actions. It's nice to have one to increase efficiency, but the cards aren't always going to play out to allow this to happen and it's definitely not necessary.

For example, our initial game tonight was won by a player with one PV. But, it was a super short 3 player game where we dumped all available licenses twice. So, we needed another turn to be competitive.

But, the second game we had 2 PVs and a shrimp license come out on the first bid. I ended up winning the game with shrimp, while both other players were able to snag double PVs. I think the key was, I didn't launch a boat on the first turn, and used my money advantage. I was able to build up my combo and buy a variety of licenses. I ended up launching 12 boats by game end.

The key is, if you don't have a processing vessel there's nothing in the game that says you HAVE to launch a boat. In fact, try not launching a boat for a turn or two and see how it works. If you snag a Tuna or Shrimp license, you'll keep a nice money advantage.
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Isaac Marx
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TheCrippledWerewolf wrote:
The key is, if you don't have a processing vessel there's nothing in the game that says you HAVE to launch a boat. In fact, try not launching a boat for a turn or two and see how it works. If you snag a Tuna or Shrimp license, you'll keep a nice money advantage.


This is exactly the conclusion that I came to while mulling over this discussion. As I said previously, any boat with four fish crates is dead weight until the end of the game so it's not necessarily a good idea to launch and captain boats in the first couple turns if you get no immediate benefit. In our games everyone launched and captained boats in the first turn, then ended up with no money for the next few turns.

This game gets more interesting the more I think about - can't wait to play it again!
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Mark Jimenez
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TheCrippledWerewolf wrote:
But, the second game we had 2 PVs and a shrimp license come out on the first bid. I ended up winning the game with shrimp, while both other players were able to snag double PVs. I think the key was, I didn't launch a boat on the first turn, and used my money advantage. I was able to build up my combo and buy a variety of licenses. I ended up launching 12 boats by game end.


Similar run last night 2P. First Auction was PV and Shrimp, with wife going first. I let her have Shrimp at cost, while I snagged PV at cost. But it all played out as in my previous game - she ran Cod-Tuna-Lobster again, and took another Cod late game and I finally snagged a Cod late game. Even though I felt clever in snagging Pub at cost and making her pay more than cost for 2 licenses, again by end game I was outboated. 50vp to 62vp - not even close! I'm 0 for 2 now.

"I'll get you next time, Gadget. NEXT TIME!!"
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