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Subject: Dominion + Dominion Intrigue 6 player game rss

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Luc Lievin
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I'm used to play with 4 players. I've just bought the Intrigue expansion and I got a 6 player game upcoming this weekend. I'm a bit confused at how to play it... The rules are a little bit fuzy.

So I get the extra cards etc. (provinces, gold, curse etc. etc) But I'm confused with the 2 groups of 3 part. Is it so that you split your group in 2 x 3 players and let each group draw 10 kingdom cards? Resulting in 20 cards? Or just 10 kingdom cards for all 6 players but what is up with the split group thing then?

Or is the split group ment for like the attack cards, like the 'Witch' card, only your group takes the curses, resulting in only 2 curses being given instead of 5? This goes for all other attack cards ofc...

Or am I missing something?
 
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The split group is just so that you can play 2 games at once. They would be 2 completely different games.

However, if you want a large 6-player game, the rules changes are as follows:

- Add in 3 of each Victory card for each player over 4. (15 for 5-player and 18 for 6-player)
- Add in another 10 Curses for each player over 4. (40 for 5-player and 50 for 6-player).
- The game ends when the Province pile is depleted OR if any 4 supply piles are depleted.
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brian
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Just to note, the reason why they suggest splitting the group into two is because of the added downtime in 5+ player games.
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Derek Whaley
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Ripshawd wrote:
The split group is just so that you can play 2 games at once. They would be 2 completely different games.

However, if you want a large 6-player game, the rules changes are as follows:

- Add in 3 of each Victory card for each player over 4. (15 for 5-player and 18 for 6-player)
- Add in another 10 Curses for each player over 4. (40 for 5-player and 50 for 6-player).
- The game ends when the Province pile is depleted OR if any 4 supply piles are depleted.


Just to correct you, only the Province pile is increased by 3 for each player over 4. The other two piles remain the same.
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Luc Lievin
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Aha I get it. Well, it's the case with any game... Plus my players are used to playing long games like Twilight Imperium or Game of Thrones so np on the added time.

Just so I can plan right how long would a 6 plyer game last? Approx. ofcourse I do understand it depends on the card setup etc...

Which cards would you recommend to definitely select as to not make the game last way too long? So like 2-3 kingdom cards which would be selected before the random picking as to speed things up a little bit... Or any cards to avoid as to avoid crazy overpowered 'I own everything' scenario's?
 
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Ripshawd wrote:
The split group is just so that you can play 2 games at once. They would be 2 completely different games.

However, if you want a large 6-player game, the rules changes are as follows:

- Add in 3 of each Victory card for each player over 4. (15 for 5-player and 18 for 6-player)
- Add in another 10 Curses for each player over 4. (40 for 5-player and 50 for 6-player).
- The game ends when the Province pile is depleted OR if any 4 supply piles are depleted.


Close.... for Victory cards, you only add +3 Provinces per extra player. Estates and Duchies remain the same (which I'm inclined to disagree with, but that's for another thread)

page 7 Intrigue rulebook
Quote:
To set up for 5 or 6 players, combine the Treasure cards from Dominion and Dominion:
Intrigue. Use 15 Provinces in the Supply for a 5-player game and 18 Provinces in the
Supply for a 6-player game. All other Victory card piles (Estates, Duchies, and Victory
Kingdom cards) remain at 12 cards per pile.
Use 40 Curse cards for a 5-player game and
50 Curse cards for a 6-player game.
In a 5 or 6 player game, the game ends at the end of any player’s turn when one of two
conditions is met: the Supply pile of Province cards is empty OR any 4 Supply piles are
empty.
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Luc Lievin
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Nostradam wrote:
Aha I get it. Well, it's the case with any game... Plus my players are used to playing long games like Twilight Imperium or Game of Thrones so np on the added time.

Just so I can plan right how long would a 6 plyer game last? Approx. ofcourse I do understand it depends on the card setup etc...

Which cards would you recommend to definitely select as to not make the game last way too long? So like 2-3 kingdom cards which would be selected before the random picking as to speed things up a little bit... Or any cards to avoid as to avoid crazy overpowered 'I own everything' scenario's?


All is clear about the card count etc. but what of above?
 
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Nostradam wrote:
Aha I get it. Well, it's the case with any game... Plus my players are used to playing long games like Twilight Imperium or Game of Thrones so np on the added time.

Just so I can plan right how long would a 6 plyer game last? Approx. ofcourse I do understand it depends on the card setup etc...

Which cards would you recommend to definitely select as to not make the game last way too long? So like 2-3 kingdom cards which would be selected before the random picking as to speed things up a little bit... Or any cards to avoid as to avoid crazy overpowered 'I own everything' scenario's?


I've heard a 6p game can take up to x2 as long as 2, concurrent, 3p games of Dom. From my recollection... 1.5x the game seems to the the minimum. So pretty much.... unless you guys have some "neurotic need" to play in the same game... two 3p games would be ideal.

Short games of Dom go such that you can play 2 games in 45 minutes or so (not the same thing as playing 2 non-back-to-back games since here, u save some time on setup). Long ones, just a single game, can go just past an hour. Problem with using the "they're used to TI or GoT" metric is a long game of Dom can be even more insufferable since the misery of such relatively short game is compounded. That said, try a 6p game first to see if everyone's on board.

As for sets for quick games, a combination of:
-avoid cards that branch (+2 actions), and perhaps even chain (+1 action)
-avoid cards that add decision points for u or others (e.g. Spy, Militia)
-esp. avoid combos that go through your entire deck, like Village Smithy)
-cards that bog down your deck with no defense (e.g. having Witches, but no Moats, Chapel, or Cellar)


Don't get me wrong, I really do enjoy many of those types of games described above... of course the goal here is to have games of shorter playtime as requested.
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Jeff Wolfe
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Also note that in a 5 or 6 player game, you use all the basic Treasure (Copper, Silver, and Gold) from both sets. You now have the option to do that with 4 or fewer players (according to the rules), but it's required for 5 or 6.

And while you don't have any additional Estates in the Supply, you will need additional Estates for players' hands (unless you are using Shelters from Dark Ages).

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Luc Lievin
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ackmondual wrote:
Nostradam wrote:
Aha I get it. Well, it's the case with any game... Plus my players are used to playing long games like Twilight Imperium or Game of Thrones so np on the added time.

Just so I can plan right how long would a 6 plyer game last? Approx. ofcourse I do understand it depends on the card setup etc...

Which cards would you recommend to definitely select as to not make the game last way too long? So like 2-3 kingdom cards which would be selected before the random picking as to speed things up a little bit... Or any cards to avoid as to avoid crazy overpowered 'I own everything' scenario's?


I've heard a 6p game can take up to x2 as long as 2, concurrent, 3p games of Dom. From my recollection... 1.5x the game seems to the the minimum. So pretty much.... unless you guys have some "neurotic need" to play in the same game... two 3p games would be ideal.

Short games of Dom go such that you can play 2 games in 45 minutes or so (not the same thing as playing 2 non-back-to-back games since here, u save some time on setup). Long ones, just a single game, can go just past an hour. Problem with using the "they're used to TI or GoT" metric is a long game of Dom can be even more insufferable since the misery of such relatively short game is compounded. That said, try a 6p game first to see if everyone's on board.

As for sets for quick games, a combination of:
-avoid cards that branch (+2 actions), and perhaps even chain (+1 action)
-avoid cards that add decision points for u or others (e.g. Spy, Militia)
-esp. avoid combos that go through your entire deck, like Village Smithy)
-cards that bog down your deck with no defense (e.g. having Witches, but no Moats, Chapel, or Cellar)


Don't get me wrong, I really do enjoy many of those types of games described above... of course the goal here is to have games of shorter playtime as requested.



Thank you, this seems really helpfull! I also enjoy those type of games.

Btw what do you mean with "a long game of Dom can be even more insufferable since the misery of such relatively short game is compounded" ? I don't quite follow you.
 
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Vid Dles
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Nostradam wrote:
Plus my players are used to playing long games like Twilight Imperium or Game of Thrones so np on the added time.


Well, the problem isn't in how long the game takes. Rather, it's in the amount of time players just sit there without anything to do.

In most long games, each player is usually actively participating, or at least brainstorming their next move, pretty much throughout the entire game. They need to pay attention to the other players' moves, alter their plans, subvert what they can when they can, etc.

Not so much with Dominion. Sure, you can plan your next turn, but that doesn't take that long. While the overall strategy in Dominion can be compelling, the decisions on an individual turn are usually simple enough that you can plan your next turn (or as much of it as you can plan in advance) in just a few seconds. And yes, you ought to pay attention to what the other players are doing and plan accordingly, but that doesn't take that long in Dominion, either--on the most part, the only thing you really need to pay attention to are the cards others purchase at the end of their turns and whether or not they're playing attack cards.

So, in a 6p game of Dominion, players will spend most of the game just waiting for their turn. This isn't too bad if you've got side conversations going on, but it can drag, especially if you've got a player who tends to pore over their decisions, or a new player who needs to read all the cards that they can afford every turn. (And, if everyone's new to Dominion except you, the wait can be excruciating.)

Just a heads up.
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Matthew Cordeiro
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Nostradam wrote:
Just so I can plan right how long would a 6 plyer game last? Approx. ofcourse I do understand it depends on the card setup etc...

I've played a fair amount of 5-6 player games. Depending on experience level and the cards in the supply, I'd say 20-30 minutes for a fast game (experienced players, light on attacks/chaining), all the way up to 50-60 minutes for a slow game (inexperienced players, lots of attacks/chaining).

Nostradam wrote:
Which cards would you recommend to definitely select as to not make the game last way too long? So like 2-3 kingdom cards which would be selected before the random picking as to speed things up a little bit... Or any cards to avoid as to avoid crazy overpowered 'I own everything' scenario's?

I'd say everything is fair game. Attacks (especially curse/ruins attacks) and action chaining will make the game longer.
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Mark Judd
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I would say that in a 6-player game, about the only card you want to avoid is Saboteur. It is usually crap in a 2-player game, but can get ugly in 4-player. In a 6-player game if most players get a Saboteur, it just gets downright nuts. You might as well just start buying Copper and Estates.

Multiple players buying Torturer could also get ugly, especially when group think dictates that discarding two cards is always better than taking a Curse, often times leaving you with only one or no cards in your hand. Once you realize that taking an occasional Curse is not that bad or that you can choose to gain a Curse when there are no more left, and you are no longer stuck with empty hands, the game goes a lot faster.

Most other attacks are limited in some way. You usually won't have more than 2 Victory cards in your hand, so Bureaucrats played by multiple players in a single round is not that bad. Once you get hit by the first Militia, you probably won't have to discard again to a second Militia before your turn. Spies slow the game down, but they can't really guarantee that anything more than the top card on your deck is bad. Multiple Thieves can get crazy, but you just end up trading treasure after a while. Of course, if there is a run on Thieves with that many players, you probably want to make sure that you don't get left out! There is a limited number of Curses, so Witches will stop punishing opponents after a while. Playing with a lot of Swindlers will turn a lot of Copper into Curses, but once Curses run out the revealed Curses will likely be turned into Copper. This will probably result in a low scoring game, with a 3-pile ending of Curses, Estates, and something else (possibly Swindlers), but it is still playable. At worst, Minion will leave you with a 4-card hand. Again, no big deal for multiple players.

In a 6-player game, there isn't really any card that is going to allow one player to stomp the other 5 players. Instead, it is going to be a rush to grab your 3-4 Provinces and maybe a few Duchies to try and come out ahead.
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Nostradam wrote:
ackmondual wrote:
Nostradam wrote:
Aha I get it. Well, it's the case with any game... Plus my players are used to playing long games like Twilight Imperium or Game of Thrones so np on the added time.

Just so I can plan right how long would a 6 plyer game last? Approx. ofcourse I do understand it depends on the card setup etc...

Which cards would you recommend to definitely select as to not make the game last way too long? So like 2-3 kingdom cards which would be selected before the random picking as to speed things up a little bit... Or any cards to avoid as to avoid crazy overpowered 'I own everything' scenario's?


I've heard a 6p game can take up to x2 as long as 2, concurrent, 3p games of Dom. From my recollection... 1.5x the game seems to the the minimum. So pretty much.... unless you guys have some "neurotic need" to play in the same game... two 3p games would be ideal.

Short games of Dom go such that you can play 2 games in 45 minutes or so (not the same thing as playing 2 non-back-to-back games since here, u save some time on setup). Long ones, just a single game, can go just past an hour. Problem with using the "they're used to TI or GoT" metric is a long game of Dom can be even more insufferable since the misery of such relatively short game is compounded. That said, try a 6p game first to see if everyone's on board.

As for sets for quick games, a combination of:
-avoid cards that branch (+2 actions), and perhaps even chain (+1 action)
-avoid cards that add decision points for u or others (e.g. Spy, Militia)
-esp. avoid combos that go through your entire deck, like Village Smithy)
-cards that bog down your deck with no defense (e.g. having Witches, but no Moats, Chapel, or Cellar)


Don't get me wrong, I really do enjoy many of those types of games described above... of course the goal here is to have games of shorter playtime as requested.



Thank you, this seems really helpfull! I also enjoy those type of games.

Btw what do you mean with "a long game of Dom can be even more insufferable since the misery of such relatively short game is compounded" ? I don't quite follow you.
TI or GoT may take 8 hours (AFAIK... haven't played them). Dom taking 1.5 hours by comparison may not seem bad, but given average games of Dom take 35 min.... a 1.5 hour game of Dom can feel much worse than any super long, heavy game going past some arbitrary playtime.
 
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One major reason to not play 6 player is that the 6th player is at a big disadvantage. They're basically guaranteed to get hit by any hand or deck attack on the 3rd turn, and Dominion isn't nearly as fun if you leave those out.

As for cards to avoid, leave out Saboteur (too many decision points, slows the game down), spy (too many decision points), and torturer (same as saboteur, really unfair to later players). Cards like swindler can be largely automated (copper/curse -> curse, estate -> estate, 3 cost to some terminal card you don't like) and cards like milita take a substantial decision but only happen once.
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Stunna wrote:
One major reason to not play 6 player is that the 6th player is at a big disadvantage. They're basically guaranteed to get hit by any hand or deck attack on the 3rd turn, and Dominion isn't nearly as fun if you leave those out.
A compromise you can do is have attack cards that attack everyone only hit the first 3 players after the current player. Seems to be a good mix of both worlds.
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A bit of thread revival here, but have people found good card combos for a six player game of Dominion/Dominion Intrigue?

I read the recommendations above, and I understand the idea of shortening the game, I was just wondering if anyone has found some decent card combos that they'd like to share.
 
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mbrna wrote:
A bit of thread revival here, but have people found good card combos for a six player game of Dominion/Dominion Intrigue?

I read the recommendations above, and I understand the idea of shortening the game, I was just wondering if anyone has found some decent card combos that they'd like to share.
If you're playing a Gardens game, Thieving everyone's Copper can really fatten your deck (up to 5 Treasure per use!).

Attack cards that hit everyone now get extra benefit from more players.
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Thanks!
I guess what I was really looking for was a list or two of the ten cards you might have found made a good game.
 
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I routinely do full random for 6-player games. While some cards play differently with 6 than 4 or 2, I don't think there's any reason to exclude any cards from 6-player games unless you're specifically trying the kind of game that attack cards can create with so many players.

For estimating that, just ask yourself "what will happen if this attack card is played every turn, at least once." If Militia is out, that might mean you start every turn with 3 cards. If Pirate Ship is out, that might mean your treasure will disappear faster than you can replenish it. That's not necessarily bad, but if you don't enjoy that sort of game, you may want to replace it.

For non-attack cards, the only thing that should bother you is if you have your heart set on some strategy that requires 4+ of a particular kingdom card. If others want the card too, you won't get it.

I personally find 6-player more interesting than 2-player, though it does take far longer to play.
 
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dalestephenson wrote:
I routinely do full random for 6-player games. While some cards play differently with 6 than 4 or 2, I don't think there's any reason to exclude any cards from 6-player games unless you're specifically trying the kind of game that attack cards can create with so many players.

For estimating that, just ask yourself "what will happen if this attack card is played every turn, at least once." If Militia is out, that might mean you start every turn with 3 cards. If Pirate Ship is out, that might mean your treasure will disappear faster than you can replenish it. That's not necessarily bad, but if you don't enjoy that sort of game, you may want to replace it.

For non-attack cards, the only thing that should bother you is if you have your heart set on some strategy that requires 4+ of a particular kingdom card. If others want the card too, you won't get it.

I personally find 6-player more interesting than 2-player, though it does take far longer to play.
One indirect issue with cards like Militia and Pirate Ship is they tend to prolong the game. With 6p, the prolonging is magnified. If folks are OK with that, then the 'ol saying "by all means".


Otherwise, I too enjoy 6p games, and have been enjoying them on computer. Attack cards that hit all players do more damage. When the player to your left plays a Torturer and there are 6 other Torturers out there, I'm more likely to take a Curse into my hand. Games that end on 3 piles give you some more room to do extra stuff now that a 4th pile needs to be depleted. If playing against not so good people, or AI opponents, you can try to get 10 to 15 Provinces instead of just 6 to 8 devil
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Derek Whaley
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Also, a warning about Curse Attacks in 6-player games. The Curses will run out very fast. Despite the scaling, whenever we have a large game with a Curse Attack, the pile is the first depleted, often within the first four full turns or so. I have enjoyed many 6-player games over the years, and I even had an 8-player game once (my group really didn't like to break up). I wouldn't recommend the 8-player option, but it was interesting, I'll tell you that.
 
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