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Commands & Colors: Ancients» Forums » General

Subject: Roman medium infantry rss

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michael esposito
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morton grove
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Looking through the C&C ancient rules, don't see any reference to Roman medium infantry; i.e. Hastati and Principes using the pilum.

This was the standard formation and the Pilum was adapted during the 1st Punic war; ca 260-241 B.C. so should'nt they be included?

I should think that the Republican Roman Medium Infantry be missile capable?

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my eye
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Both Julian and Marian rules found in later expansions allow for Roman medium troops to fire.

Marion and Imperial Roman Mediums can move one and throw 1 with a range of two.

Julian Roman Mediums can move one and throw 1 with a range of two, or move two and not battle.
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Miguel [working on TENNISmind]
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They are, but starting with Aquae Sextiae. It is the "Marius Legions Rule":

Medium Roman Infantry units are armed with pilum and sword. These units are now missile weapon capable units and must follow the rules for Ranged Combat units. The unit has a range of two hexes and will roll 1 battle die when it holds or moves only one hex.
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michael esposito
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morton grove
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thanks.

Yes saw that. But my point is that it should be allowed much earlier than 105 B.C.; as pilum were used by manipular legions as early as 250 B.C.

Is there any special rules in the scenarios to allow this?

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Kevin Duke
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No, there aren't.

This is a compromise in how the game works.

Pila were not really used in the same way that javelins were and make for a difficult abstraction to get right.

If you will dig down through the pages, there was a lot of discussion on this and we've all pretty much accepted the way things work and moved on.
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michael esposito
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got it.
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Mauro Fiorelli
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earache wrote:
Both Julian and Marian rules found in later expansions allow for Roman medium troops to fire.

Marion and Imperial Roman Mediums can move one and throw 1 with a range of two.

Julian Roman Mediums can move one and throw 1 with a range of two, or move two and not battle.


I profit by this thread to talk about if you think it is possible that in the forthcoming future GMT could issue a new release of rules to distinguish every type of unit (for example for Heavy Infantries, Macedonian Phalanx ignores 1 Sword or Roman HI ignores 1 flag).

I think that GMT already did something like this in C&C:Napoleonic rules (English Line Inf rolls 1 more die in Ranged Combat while French Line Inf rolls 1 more die in Close Combat).


Thanks
Mauro
 
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michael esposito
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Ciao Mauro.

Thanks for the reply. I would like to see more 'granularity' between units; Phalanxes should not be just like any heavy infantry, also, Roman Medium infantry should have distinctions from other medium infantry as well.
 
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Mauro Fiorelli
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mike_espo wrote:
Ciao Mauro.

Thanks for the reply. I would like to see more 'granularity' between units; Phalanxes should not be just like any heavy infantry, also, Roman Medium infantry should have distinctions from other medium infantry as well.


Maybe it could be better to open a new thread about this argument..... what do you think?
 
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Dave Briggs
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I will offer one piece of advice. Make sure you have played the game many, many times before you start making rules changes. The core game has a built-in interaction of components (units, cards and dice) that only becomes apparent after gaining a sufficient level of experience.
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Mauro Fiorelli
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Brigz wrote:
I will offer one piece of advice. Make sure you have played the game many, many times before you start making rules changes. The core game has a built-in interaction of components (units, cards and dice) that only becomes apparent after gaining a sufficient level of experience.


We (as group of friends) like C&C very, very much.

We played it about forty times (even some EPIC scenarios) but since we also have a multi-year experience in playing wargames (SPI, Avalon Hill, GMT and so on), we would like a kind of advanced version of the rules.

Don't you?
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michael esposito
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Hi Mauro. Yes. Could not have said it better myself. I love GBoH. SPQR, CoG, CCW. This game is a technical at least two steps back from those. However, I like the C&CA for its elegant game play. But still something is lacking in the granularity.

Oh well, I guess you can't have it all...
 
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Dave Briggs
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Gedeone wrote:
We (as group of friends) like C&C very, very much.

We played it about forty times (even some EPIC scenarios) but since we also have a multi-year experience in playing wargames (SPI, Avalon Hill, GMT and so on), we would like a kind of advanced version of the rules.

Don't you?


No. I like it exactly the way it is. But, if you think it needs more rules, then that's up to you.

I also play Advanced Squad Leader. Maybe that's why I like and appreciate the simplicity and elegance of CCA. I have more fun playing CCA. ASL is demanding and intense. CCA is relaxing but at the same time exciting and challenging.

Anyway, if you must tinker with the game, above all else, have fun.
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michael esposito
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Hi Dave. Congrats. One of the only games I feel is almost unplayable is ASL. Went to the much simpler LnL series by Mark Walker.

Anyway, maybe you're right. Just have fun and enjoy. Maybe Ill try.
 
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