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Star Wars: X-Wing Miniatures Game» Forums » Strategy

Subject: Senator's shuttle, how do the Rebels win? rss

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The Man
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I have nearly twice as many Ties as Rebels, to be expected. I have the best named Rebel pilots. I use Biggs to exfort, to be a meat shield. I still don't see how one gets over the fact the TIES get in close, swarm the shuttle, and blast the hell out of it. Even if two Rebels successfullly cooperate to take out a TIE, there are man y left over. 200 pts a side, so 6 Rebels and 11 TiES
 
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Thomas Staudt
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conedguy wrote:
I have nearly twice as many Ties as Rebels, to be expected. I have the best named Rebel pilots. I use Biggs to exfort, to be a meat shield. I still don't see how one gets over the fact the TIES get in close, swarm the shuttle, and blast the hell out of it. Even if two Rebels successfullly cooperate to take out a TIE, there are man y left over. 200 pts a side, so 6 Rebels and 11 TiES


I don't have the rules in front of me, but if the scenario is balanced for 100 points, there is a 50:50 chance that the ties do enough damage to win the game before getting killed.

If you use 200 points, there is a 50:50 chance that the Empire does twice as much damage as necessary to win the game before getting killed.

Therefore the win condition should be scaled, too.

Or am I missing something?
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The Man
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ashman wrote:
conedguy wrote:
I have nearly twice as many Ties as Rebels, to be expected. I have the best named Rebel pilots. I use Biggs to exfort, to be a meat shield. I still don't see how one gets over the fact the TIES get in close, swarm the shuttle, and blast the hell out of it. Even if two Rebels successfullly cooperate to take out a TIE, there are man y left over. 200 pts a side, so 6 Rebels and 11 TiES


I don't have the rules in front of me, but if the scenario is balanced for 100 points, there is a 50:50 chance that the ties do enough damage to win the game before getting killed.

If you use 200 points, there is a 50:50 chance that the Empire does twice as much damage as necessary to win the game.

Therefore the win condition should be scaled, too.

Or am I missing something?


I should have said that I doubled the shields, as measured by Tracking tokens. So 12 tracking tokens, plus the hull. Still tough for the Rebels
 
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Thomas Staudt
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Would it have been close if you also doubled the hull value?
 
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Michael Kröhnert
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I'd say, 200 points is too much for the scenario. The shuttle should have something like 12 hull points and 12 shields in such a case. Try the 100 points game with 6 hull and 6 shields.

Edit: typed before I saw your conversation above.

I'd like to ask the same question, though:

Game as stated in the base game: 1 Red Squad X-Wing against 2 vanilla TIEs. 3 by 3 game board. Shuttle has 6 hull points.

- The shuttle, if using its "speed 2" movement only, will leave the area in the 5th turn, I believe.

- TIEs are in shooting range in turn 2 (reinforcements will be in shooting range immediately, as the shuttle would be nearer to the empire's edge of the game area).

- As the Empire player has unlimited reinforcements, his craft should all be "set to Kamikaze mode" (thus ignoring the rebel ship, just going in for the kill of the senator).

- Each TIE inflicts an average of 1.5 hits upon the shuttle (as far as my trial run showed)

- Rebel player can put one Evade token on the shuttle per turn if he stays close.

- 3 hits minus 1 evade makes 2 hits. After 3 turns, the senator's shuttle is toast.

Don't get me wrong: I really like this game, the value for money may be not outstanding but is absolutely okay, and the commitment of FFG for creating the models alone shows that despite being a big player in the business they still are true fans, but IMHO this first scenario can only work if you play "thematically" and use your TIEs also for defeating the X-Wing.

I don't think that usage of the curve 1 maneuvers for the shuttle will change this outcome, especially as the shuttle moves first in the scenario. The only hope could be fielding one or two Y-Wings with Ion cannons in a point game with more craft and with equipment cards, I guess.

I thought about giving the shuttle Evade tokens depending on the distance of the rebel pilot (range 1: 3 tokens, range 2: 2 tokens, range 3: 1 token), but then the rebel player will probably just stay very close to the shuttle, and all will just come down to the better dice rolls ...

I don't know ... out of the box it looks like the first scenario of Tide of Iron again (where the German side could only win if the dice god was with them and if the American side did some stupid things).

Am I missing something here?
 
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Kurt Weihs
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I would suggest using more ships. With 200 points and only 6 ships I think you are focusing too much on kitting out a few ships. Abilities of named pilots and high pilot skills are nice to have, but the more I play the more I am realizing how important it is to simply have another firing platform, especially when you are typically outnumbered.

Rather than dump your points into a dream team spread them out over a few high skill pilots and a bunch of lower level pilots. You can use Swarm tactics with a pilot like Wedge to convert a Rookie into a second Ace. Being able to shoot earlier is huge, but you don't necessarily need to all high skill pilots to pull it off. Let the synergies do the heavy lifting.

Edit - I agree that the scenario might not scale well for 200 points. With 200 points, though, you can put together a good mixed list of 8 X Wings and Y Wings. 8 vs 11 looks a lot better than 6 vs 11. Also, losing a single fighter doesn't hurt the rebels nearly as badly. It won't be an easy win, but if it was it wouldn't be any fun.

 
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Three Headed Monkey
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Perhaps with 200 points have two shuttles instead of one.
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Dave Weiss
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I haven't played the scenario, but a couple ideas have come to mind, especially at that point scale.

Use biggs with the agility droid. He has higher defense at that point and can hopefully suck up a few more attacks before he dies. I'd even toss determination on him just in case.

Take a few Y's with ion cannons and just use them to lock fighters down. Killing doesn't really help, so if you can just lock ties down for a wasted round or two, that's less attacks they get on the shuttle.

Match high level pilots with low level and use swarm tactics in pairs. Have each pair target a single tie and focus fire them hopefully before they even get a chance to do anything in return.
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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I've played this scenario twice, one as the game described, and one as a 100pt match. Our board is a little longer (4ft) so makes it a little more challenging for the Rebels (i.e. farther for the shuttle to travel).

The first game, both TIE fighters attacked the X-Wing on the first engagement and it was obliterated (2 hits no defense wiped the shields out, then 2 hits with a crit destroyed it). Then my measly shuttle was slowly pecked away. It actually almost got away (kept rolling great defense), but eventually it died.

The second game, a 100 pt battle, saw Merrek Steele with 5 TIEs vs 2 Y-Wings and Biggs. Biggs had R2-D2 (shield repair), one of the Ys had the hull repair R5 unit, they both had Ion Cannons. In this battle, the Rebels won resoundly! I destroyed at least 4 different TIEs (they keep respawning) and at the end not one Rebel ship was lost and the Shuttle had 4 hull left. Biggs almost died, got down to 1 hull before the TIEs ignored him and he regenerated his shields. The Y-Wings lost a few shields but that was it.

With the extra ships providing dodges, and Biggs absorbing hits, the Imperials didn't have a chance. Also, the Ion cannons were great, since I'd focus on any forward TIEs, knowing that with their 1 move they'd drift past my shuttle and wouldn't be able to fire on it.

-shnar
 
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Read the rulebook, plan for all contingencies, and…read the rulebook again.
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Buy as many ships as you can, preferably Ys—with cannons if you can afford them. Put four craft around the shuttle. Use the Protect action to protect the shuttle. Stick with the shuttle and get across the board.
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Ethan McKinney
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Make sure that you're trying to kill TIEs before they fire. One dead TIE not shooting this turn is almost always worth more than two damaged TIEs that die next turn.
 
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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elbmc1969 wrote:
Make sure that you're trying to kill TIEs before they fire. One dead TIE not shooting this turn is almost always worth more than two damaged TIEs that die next turn.

Focusing your efforts is a generally good idea for both sides. I've seen fights where each ship is targeting a different ship, and that side tends to lose. The key is to knock out a ship as quickly as you can. Once one side starts losing ships, they start losing the game.

-shnar
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The Man
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Michel wrote:
I'd say, 200 points is too much for the scenario. The shuttle should have something like 12 hull points and 12 shields in such a case. Try the 100 points game with 6 hull and 6 shields.

Edit: typed before I saw your conversation above.


-


Am I missing something here?


My scaling should have been 24 hits total,not 18, with SHield and hull
 
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Matthew Rooks
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Three Headed Monkey wrote:
Perhaps with 200 points have two shuttles instead of one.


Beat me to it. With 200 points, there should be at least 2 shuttles in play. The imperials cannot win unless all shuttles are destroyed.
 
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The Man
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Taking out TIE Advanced should be good for the rebels, as they cannot be replaced by normal TIES; if all your TIES are out. Right?
 
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William Boykin
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BradyLS wrote:
Buy as many ships as you can, preferably Ys—with cannons if you can afford them. Put four craft around the shuttle. Use the Protect action to protect the shuttle. Stick with the shuttle and get across the board.


I READ YOUR BOOK!!!!!



Darilian
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