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Bloody April, 1917: Air War Over Arras, France» Forums » General

Subject: Expanded Sequence of Play rss

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Todd Quinn
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Dear all

I have just uploaded an Expanded Sequence of Play I designed to make my games a little easier. Hopefully it will be approved soon but in the meantime it can also be found on consimworld (post 1671) hopefully at this link:

http://talk.consimworld.com/WebX?14@@.1dd43edd/1690

See you in the sky!

Todd
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Martin Tyman
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You are not human. You are an expanded sequence of play machine. robot

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Ty Snouffer
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Whoa, mind = blown. THat is quite a piece of work. Printing now!

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Christopher O
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Looks really good. This might save some rapid flipping through pages, esp. in the case of bouncing dogfights.

I will use it next time I play.

GG tipped and thumbed.
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Christopher O
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Todd, just reading through your sequence of play, I noted this section:

Quote:
Modified 12+ means enemy flight Visually Identified (VID) which:
- Requires replacement of Undetected or Detected marker with the flight’s actual counter (or Dummy
removal) [8.32];
- Requires placement of sighting flight’s Tally marker on the VID flight;
- Prohibits further VID attempts; and
- Requires owner of VID flight to state its (1) number of aeroplanes; (2) type of aeroplane; (3) altitude in
feet; and (4) number of Damaged/Crippled aeroplanes [8.33].


Your third bullet point says"Prohibits further VID attempts;", I do not find any evidence for this in the relevant rule section, at least by my reading of it.

Quote:

8.21 (actually 8.3, but missing a heading as stated in the errata)
A player may make a visual sighting detection roll for each enemy flight within five hexes (each altitude band difference between flights adds one to range) and Line of Sight [7.3] of each friendly non-dummy flight (Dummy flights may not attempt Tallies). Choose an eligible friendly flight to make the sighting attempt. The owning player must decide in what order to attempt visually sighting as the first success will be the flight that they visually sight (Tally) (i.e., each flight may have only one Tally marker on the map).


The section above does not state that additional VIDs may not be made, only that additional Tallies are not possible.

If it is the designer's intent that there only be attempts made until a tally is made, then that should be stated more explicitly.

Re-reading it now, I can see why you made that point, but I don't think it's explicitly stated. Your method makes complete sense, and I'm not arguing against that being the correct interpretation, but if it is, I think it requires a clarification in the FAQ.
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Todd Quinn
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Hey Chris

Here is a discussion regarding your question/issue:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/861715/visual-sighting-a...

I think I also clarified this personally with Terry a little before that discussion as part of his release game I am involved in.

Anyway, I can ensure you that it is the case. I wrote that part the way I did so there was no question of misunderstanding it. Note also that you can voluntarily drop a Tally in the Admin Phase so you are never burdened with a Tally you do not want.

As to inclusion in the FAQ, I shall leave that to the man in charge.

I should highlight that the ESOP is based on my interpretation of the rules, several questions I have asked, and various other discussions I have trawled through here and in consimworld. So I do not say for a minute that I have everything correct in here. But any mistakes are definitely my own.

I hope all that makes sense. I appreciate the feedback. Thanks mate.

Todd
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Christopher O
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http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/861715/visual-sighting-a...

I had actually seen the thread you cite, including Terry S's answer and still did not feel that it clarified the issue with regard to VIDs and Tallies. It is vaguely apparent that his intent is that VIDs are the same as Tallies (in my mind they should not be, but it is not my game system ), but once again, that is not sufficiently clear, in my opinion, from either the rules as written or that cited exchange.

However, since you state that you have spoken personally with him, I shall take that as a fellow gamer's assurance and assume it to be correct.

So, no additional visual IDs after tally is made, tally placed on first flight visually identified. Check.

Not how I would have written the rules; in my experience in simulators, you can visually identify one enemy flight, then another, then go back to tracking the first visually, but that's apparently not his design intent, so I will respect that.
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Todd Quinn
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Kozure wrote:
It is vaguely apparent that his intent is that VIDs are the same as Tallies (in my mind they should not be, but it is not my game system ), but once again, that is not sufficiently clear, in my opinion, from either the rules as written or that cited exchange.


Hi Christopher. Just one quick additional point in relation to this sentence is this definition of Tally in the Rules: "Tally. Codeword used by the British, meaning that an enemy flight has been visually sighted. The term Visually Sighted and Tally have the same meaning for game rule interpretation."

Based on your sentence you may not have seen this. Using two words to mean the same thing did confuse me a little at first but once you get the hang of it it works. Plus you get to shout at the top of your lungs "Tally-Ho" when you catch sight of the Baron!

Todd
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Christopher O
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Quote:
"Tally. Codeword used by the British, meaning that an enemy flight has been visually sighted. The term Visually Sighted and Tally have the same meaning for game rule interpretation."


I did see that as well, but I could not recall where I had seen it. I do feel that the usage in the rule cited in my first post muddies the waters somewhat. If they are intended to be the same, then one word or term should be used, or the other, not both interchangeably.

To me, and this may be ahistorical, one can visually identify something but not maintain a tally, so the terms should not be interchangeable.

i.e. I visually identify two flights, one consisting of red Albatroses, and another of Albatroses in clear coat. I can have seen (tallied) both, but can only maintain a tally on one or the other. Target fixation is common and both dangerous and hard to avoid.

Anyway, I'm arguing a moot point, you have a slightly unclear rules passage, an unambiguous term definition and a personal discussion on your side, so I've clearly little standing to argue against the rule, I merely question the underpinnings.

And yes, there is an especially fun aspect to crying out "Tally-ho" on those bally Huns!
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Terry Simo
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My intent whether clearly stated or not which obviously is a "not" is that you do your visual sighting attempts in any order you want but once you succeed you are done and your one allowed "Tally" has occurred and is marked as such on the map whether you have more eligible flights to attempt against or not. So the order that you attempt to do this is important.

Visually Identifed = Codeword "Tally". You may never visually identify or tally more that one flight during that phase as the first success ends the phase.

After reading Chris' example, I can see where confusion can creep in on the terminology. I have added a "Rules" lawyer to my team for the next game in development "Cactus Air Force" to hopefully eliminate any gaps and seams in terminology. whistle

T-Mo
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Todd Quinn
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The ESOP is in the Files section now.

Todd
 
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