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Battlestar Galactica: The Board Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: Damaged Hanger and Use of Command Action rss

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Travis Grasser
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Is it possible to launch Vipers from Command while the Hanger is damaged?

After digging through the core rule book and FAQ from FFG, I don't see anything stating that the action isn't allowed but it seems a bit odd since you end up with a thematic break where the best pilots can't launch but the scrubs can still be sent out. Apollo would be the only exception since he has the ability to Hijack NPC Vipers.

Am I just missing something here or is this loophole intended?
 
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A damaged area just means the action from that space cannot be used. So Command can still send out vipers if the Hangar is damaged, but players cannot get out.

And likewise, if the Hangar was fine and Command was damaged, then pilots could go as normal, but no one could send out unmanned vipers.
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Mindy G
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Yeah, it's just one of those things you can't think too logically about.
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David F
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The hangar deck isn't damaged, the main pilot characters are just dealing with their issues again. whistle
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Mooseulie Ferenczy
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Special note, Apollo's AVP doesn't care if the Hangar Deck is damaged for him to launch. So if someone activates command to launch a viper while the Hangar is damage, Apollo can still go out.
 
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Travis Grasser
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DoomTurtle wrote:
A damaged area just means the action from that space cannot be used. So Command can still send out vipers if the Hangar is damaged, but players cannot get out.

And likewise, if the Hangar was fine and Command was damaged, then pilots could go as normal, but no one could send out unmanned vipers.


Right, mechanically it makes sense but from a Theme standpoint it's pretty odd. Your second example makes more sense theme-wise since not being able to use the radio to order people around when it's busted seems logical.

Obviously this could be a balance versus theme issue but it seems that it deserves to be mentioned just to clarify the disconnect.
 
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Travis Grasser
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j0frenzy wrote:
Special note, Apollo's AVP doesn't care if the Hangar Deck is damaged for him to launch. So if someone activates command to launch a viper while the Hangar is damage, Apollo can still go out.


Right, that's what I meant, in that he was the only "good" pilot that could still get out to space when the Hanger is busted.
 
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Travis Grasser
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Anyway, thanks for clarifying this, it's good to get a second opinion on this kind of thing since I'm normally the rules authority in my group.
 
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Darren Nakamura
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Here's your thematic interpretation. When the Hangar Deck is damaged, it's really just the door between where the hotshot Viper/Raptor pilots hang out and where the nuggets hang out that's damaged. Since the hotshots have to go through the nugget hangout to get to the Vipers, they can't launch, but the nuggets can.

Apollo can circumvent the damaged door by actually throwing himself out a nearby airlock and commandeering a Viper that's already being piloted by a nugget.
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Travis Grasser
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Dexter345 wrote:
Here's your thematic interpretation. When the Hangar Deck is damaged, it's really just the door between where the hotshot Viper/Raptor pilots hang out and where the nuggets hang out that's damaged. Since the hotshots have to go through the nugget hangout to get to the Vipers, they can't launch, but the nuggets can.

Apollo can circumvent the damaged door by actually throwing himself out a nearby airlock and commandeering a Viper that's already being piloted by a nugget.


Haha, nice! Although isn't Pegasus the only Battlestar with an Airlock?
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David F
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This is probably the most serious unintuitive issue in the game though. I once had a Cylon argue with me, utterly convinced it says somewhere in the rulebook that Command isn't usable once Hangar Deck is damaged. I had to pull it out and disprove him, but really, once the rulebook comes out, nobody wins
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Travis Grasser
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selwyth wrote:
This is probably the most serious unintuitive issue in the game though. I once had a Cylon argue with me, utterly convinced it says somewhere in the rulebook that Command isn't usable once Hangar Deck is damaged. I had to pull it out and disprove him, but really, once the rulebook comes out, nobody wins


Yeah, we tend to run into some issues when something like this comes up in a theme heavy game, so being able to preempt it the next time we play will be good for keeping the session on track.
 
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Robert Stewart
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Don't think of it as launching new Vipers on patrol; think of it as calling in the patrolling Vipers from wherever it is the civilians hang out when they're not getting shot at...
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tsgrasser wrote:
Is it possible to launch Vipers from Command while the Hanger is damaged?

After digging through the core rule book and FAQ from FFG, I don't see anything stating that the action isn't allowed but it seems a bit odd since you end up with a thematic break where the best pilots can't launch but the scrubs can still be sent out. Apollo would be the only exception since he has the ability to Hijack NPC Vipers.

Am I just missing something here or is this loophole intended?
It's been said before, and gonna be said again.... The game's thematic, but not THAT thematic. Many things are abstracted for simplicity's sake.

There are other cases like this...
Some1 asked and thought that if FTL Control was damaged, humans shouldn't be ale to Auto-Jump

Characters like Roslin, Zarek, and Baltar have no expertise in Repairing vipers, yet, thy can still play Repair cards to do so. Some have argued that they're not the ones doing it. They have other ppl who know how to fix vipers do it for them. Fine.. Fair enough. But then I could counter-argue that Roslin could've done a repair from President's office by picking up a hard line and ordering some1 to make the repairs. She doesn't need to benin the hangar Decl looking over the shoulder Of some maintaince guy

If all Raptors are destroyed, then downed pilots should be executed, since in the show, the pilots of shot down vipers were rescued by Raptr teams.

In Peg, Adama cant use Admirals Quarters, but can use Airlock just fine.
 
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Travis Grasser
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ackmondual wrote:
tsgrasser wrote:
Is it possible to launch Vipers from Command while the Hanger is damaged?

After digging through the core rule book and FAQ from FFG, I don't see anything stating that the action isn't allowed but it seems a bit odd since you end up with a thematic break where the best pilots can't launch but the scrubs can still be sent out. Apollo would be the only exception since he has the ability to Hijack NPC Vipers.

Am I just missing something here or is this loophole intended?
It's been said before, and gonna be said again.... The game's thematic, but not THAT thematic. Many things are abstracted for simplicity's sake.

There are other cases like this...
Some1 asked and thought that if FTL Control was damaged, humans shouldn't be ale to Auto-Jump

Characters like Roslin, Zarek, and Baltar have no expertise in Repairing vipers, yet, thy can still play Repair cards to do so. Some have argued that they're not the ones doing it. They have other ppl who know how to fix vipers do it for them. Fine.. Fair enough. But then I could counter-argue that Roslin could've done a repair from President's office by picking up a hard line and ordering some1 to make the repairs. She doesn't need to benin the hangar Decl looking over the shoulder Of some maintaince guy

If all Raptors are destroyed, then downed pilots should be executed, since in the show, the pilots of shot down vipers were rescued by Raptr teams.

In Peg, Adama cant use Admirals Quarters, but can use Airlock just fine.


Valid points, but that still doesn't excuse a break from theme and function, at least not in all cases.

Things like Adama and the airlock should probably have been handled with errata or directly on the board like the change to Jumps on Crisis played from caprica with the overlay, as it not only breaks the theme but also breaks the mechanics to a certain degree since it partially circumvents his limitation. Obviously this is my opinion on that particular issue and maybe they let him have the ability based on thorough testing, I really don't know.

With that in mind, I think a similar case can be made for damage to the Hanger since it allows for loopholes in what would otherwise be a major road block to humans when it occurs. Again testing may have shown it to be too crippling.

The FTL issue has been specifically addressed in the FAQ, so it is what is, a balance issue. The other issues you point out at least fit within the context of the abstraction, so the fact that they don't fit quiet right thematically doesn't really seem like an issue. The rub really just comes when the specific mechanics and the theme applied directly to them become inconsistent.

I don't think these are game breaking issues by any means but it does seem a bit like short cuts in design or at the very least in documentation since it isn't mentioned there. Given the number of play testers listed, I'm sure they had to have dealt with some of this before going to print.

And just to be clear, I am nit picking here, I do think the game as a whole is great, which just means that the minor flaws stick out a bit more.
 
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Gerry Smit
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How about "Hangar Deck is BIG!"

Hangar Deck Damaged means: The area around YOUR squadron is shot up. Around their squadron, not so much. Apollo's AVP just means he's sitting in the bird at the tube, that's what "Alert" means. (That and "Ready 5"). And or he hops the damaged rail and pulls the noob out by his neck tabs, jumps in and zooms off.

Command gets shot up, they can't tell the hangar deck to launch, nor commo with the birds in the air with new orders. But pilots on the Hangar Deck can still launch if they so decide.
 
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