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Enemy Action: Ardennes» Forums » General

Subject: Has anyone heard of a 'street date' for this game ? rss

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B Orr
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I have always enjoyed John's games and am looking forward to this.

Thanks for any info,
-Brett
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Darrell Hanning
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If you look at the latest on the ConSimWorld thread for this game, the map art looks to have still been undecided as of September 3rd, so I wouldn't be optimistic about seeing this game before Q2 of 2013.
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B Orr
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Thanks!
 
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Eren Koyunoglu
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Today I received a support mail indicating that the release date will be February 2013.
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Daniel Kaufman
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I agree.
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Andrew Kluck
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demonsss wrote:
This is what really gets me angry, You are told a date (originally november) Pay up front 3 -4 months before date and then keep getting put back ... now at January 13, and who knows when. And to top it all no email updates to those that paid.. we find out here by accident!!! soblueAND NO UPDATES ON GAME PROGRESS AT ALL Thats the last time I preorder from compass.. i would rather wait till it comes out and take my chances in getting a copy...

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Scott Steffan
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Fellow gamers,
I am one of the playtesters of this game and collect solitaire games. I realize the wait is difficult, but would like to say this will be a very good 2-player and solitaire game. Each game has been developed and tested separately and each brings characteristics of the simulation using different innovative techniques.

I had tried to reach out to Mr. Butterfield, and just received a communication with from him about a week ago and can say he was affected by the big storm. I am unsure of the game's publication date, but know this storm has affected his ability to communicate out until recently.

I, like you, am awaiting patiently for its arrival.
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rexbinary
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I just received an email from Compass stating it looks like the game will enter production in March.
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Paul Borchers
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Didn't you just say that upthread?

While I don't like delays, Compass has a good enough track record that I'm confident they'll deliver a good product (this is the first game I've ordered from them). A handful of companies (not including Compass) take money up front and are years behind on delivery (and in fact may fail before the products are finished). Those would definitely be ones to avoid.

Not every company takes money for preorders up front. I'd suggest you preorder from one of those places, or wait for the games to get produced and in the stores before you purchase. To me, it's expendable income spent for entertainment, whether the game gets here sooner or later. I realize not everyone thinks that way.
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Marty Sample
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I participated in some early playtests of this game and have no problem waiting for it. The team working on this has a proven track record. And this game is very different and revolutionary. I'd rather they take the time to get it right .

For those wailing about delays, its not uncommon in the wargaming world. Both the designer and developer have full time day jobs - this game thing is a part time gig, at best. Both live in New Jersey and were severely impacted by Sandy.
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Daniel Kaufman
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While delays are expected in wargaming, I think what's uncommon is paying upfront for a pre-order (at least in my experience). I think there is a greater expectation to receive it closer to the expected date when someone is holding on to your money. At the very least, it would be good to send an email explaining the delay to those who purchased it.
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john bernardo
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mr_peabody wrote:
Didn't you just say that upthread?

While I don't like delays, Compass has a good enough track record that I'm confident they'll deliver a good product (this is the first game I've ordered from them). A handful of companies (not including Compass) take money up front and are years behind on delivery (and in fact may fail before the products are finished). Those would definitely be ones to avoid.

Not every company takes money for preorders up front. I'd suggest you preorder from one of those places, or wait for the games to get produced and in the stores before you purchase. To me, it's expendable income spent for entertainment, whether the game gets here sooner or later. I realize not everyone thinks that way.


Well said Paul
 
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Paul Borchers
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Quote:
As for development comments, well that’s great for play testers as you have seen something to say that its happening … normal folk have not and that is the point( Not even screen shots , development diary or anything).


Occasional comments and pictures of games in progress have been posted on Consimworld for a number of months now. In the last week, a portion of the map and samples of the counter art have been posted there as well.

Quote:
We should not have to raise our concerns here on a forum, it should be the company that keeps its customers informed and reassured. Companies need to understand that if they wish or have to trade this way, then we their supporters need to be supported as well, and not just “that’s the way it has always been”. The door swings both ways


No doubt it has been quiet here, and the people from Compass should have provided more information in general. Nonetheless, small companies can only do so much. Again, if you're not comfortable with the volatile schedule of wargame companies, you should probably avoid preordering in the future. I presume Compass would refund your money if you asked, but unfortunately that doesn't change what has been a long wait for you.
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rexbinary
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If you are the impatient type, I think pre-ordering war games is a really bad idea.
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Marty Sample
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BTW, for those that say they have not gotten any email updates - Compass does send out periodic emails - if you prepubbed, I'd think you are already on the list. If you didn't get an update, either check your spam filter or ask to be put on the list.
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rexbinary
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demonsss wrote:
rexbinary wrote:
If you are the impatient type, I think pre-ordering war games is a really bad idea.


Yes your right if wanting some customer service is now called impatient then I am very very impatient. Thanks to those that pointed to the consim as your right it does contain a good amount or detail(not something I normally visit as I rely on this site) , and since we have had this "Discussion" little bits of extra stuff has appeared on this website thank you for that. And thanks to those with less than helpful comments, I now can look forward to a good game.


I have a suggestion. Join the Compass Mailing list just like I did. Then you will receive emails with current information like I do that will allow you to post helpful comments like this one:

http://boardgamegeek.com/article/10510073#10510073

I too am looking forward to this game, enjoy!
 
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Scott Steffan
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As a gamer, I collect solitaire games and have over eighty. I study the various systems and code them up to look at the intelligence patterns they use. I will say this about Enemy Action: Ardennes, John Butterfield and John Foley have created very innovative solitaire playing systems that I have been privileged to test. Separate solitaire systems have been introduced to handle the defensive Allied opponent or the aggressive German opponent. Reflecting on systems I have seen in the past, developing a playable aggressive system is much more challenging effort. In my humble opinion, I will say that this, I think it is the best solitaire system I have seen undertaken by two quality designers to address a realistic combat simulation. The two-player brings in another aspect of the game entirely. Testing is arduous and complete before moving on. For the German Solitaire game, I have produced at least twelve sixty page reports, plus a number of statistical analyses to address player balance, strategy and replay opportunity. They dislike the delay from the storm and I don’t know the impact it has had on their families, but I am sure John B. and John F. want to may sure this game is right before publishing. I have many solitaire games that have been published before they were ready and to be truthful, just don’t work or have been glued together. This is not the case with this game as I have stated above.

I have made the same pre-purchase. Waiting is tough, please visit the ComSimWorld forum, http://talk.consimworld.com/WebX?13@4.SZZLbriEvaF.8@.1dd4b69... for the latest discussions. Post your concerns on the forums for others to hear, since both designers visit that site more often.
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John Foley
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There are a number of things to share about how things are going. I certainly feel very much for someone who enthusiastically plunked money down when the pre-order call came out and is still waiting. I am not sure that anything I can say will mollify you, but I'll try to share the real picture as well as some thoughts on what you might consider.

First of all - I've pointed out to some that this is not merely one game, nor is it merely three games, nor is it doubly three games, it feels like working on three-times-three. Now, lest you dislike or disagree with such "funny arithmetic", please let me point out that every adjustment made in one place not only has to be checked in the same point in the other rules sets, but it must be checked against OTHER elements (or vacancies!) in the other rules sets.

This description might allow you to see that when we supported the Compass decision to go for pre-order - and we were "two-thirds ready" in our thinking - where READY means the design work is stable - it did not mean then "composed and ready for printing" - thus - in the context at that point, it seemed like a predictable march to successful delivery earlier this year.

On the way, we gained some exceptional testers who (a) found unusual aspects of the German Solo game that needed to be carefully examined and (b) then went on to provide the same service to the new Allied Solo game, which caused a LOT of thoughtful and patient design work for John B.

A fascinating thing - you may not thinks so because it has slowed things down - is that we saw how entirely different new mechanisms had to be created to motivate the system intelligence for each side. They were not merely opposite versions of the same concept - they were entirely different conceptions that created the right motivations.

So - we began a journey into undiscovered country.

Now - here's the part where you may justly blame me.

In such a circumstance, I personally decided to shield "my designer" (this is how I feel about the designers I work for - they are "mine" to protect and support) by going somewhat quiet about the game progress. I thought that this would give the freest possible realm for John B to discover the unique solutions he needed. For my part, I believe this was correct.

But it has had some bothersome consequences - you are angry with the delay and the mixed messages from different sources - you are angry with the silence and the possible presumption that your pre-paid support has been ignored, presumed, absconded with or some such.

So - where does this take us. What's actually going on?

We're working with our capable artist to move carefully through the creation of the base map and then the other two maps. Going carefully is essential. Good heavens, I have already forced poor Tim to make what I thought were small adjustments and he had to entirely redraw the river layer - probably three-five hours of painful tedium for him. There are other such traps involved in trying to align the details of the map since it's not just one but three.

Simultaneously, I have to continue a long list of editorial items to synchronize the formats of all three rules sets. And there are all the examples to create, the indexes, all the very fine points.

I had tried to forecast to Ken Dingley in August my stretch goal of finishing my editorial work by the end of the year. Well - for many of "life reasons", this stretch goal is pretty much beyond my physical ability to accomplish. I need probably 8-10 weeks working every single night and weekend to get the work done to my standards for John and Ken.

This work has to be composed by Ken and Tim, and proofread diligently. We thankfully have some marvelous offers to proofread and I will absolutely take up my friends on that account. We hate errors with a passion and we'll try to kill as many of them as possible.

Now - Ken and Bill of Compass are depending on me (and Tim and John) to pull all these pieces together in a timely manner and "get on with it". Now you see where the bottleneck is.

And I offer to you these options: we're constantly working - but it may just not be good enough. If you need to step back from the pre-order at this time, Ken will gladly support you (although he'll kick me in the behind). Ken and Bill are absolutely upstanding in this regard.

The other thing is that regardless of what anyone else says, there are TWO "say sos" you need to understand exactly the key milestones in the production:

(1) MINE. Yes. I require a four-way sign off to approve anything that reaches its fully composed final printable state. When that day is reached - when all the components have been designed and composed and proofed and signed off four ways - then you know that any production timeline is NO LONGER bound by the design, development, art, composition team members. I wish I could have reached this by year's end - perhaps it will be so sometime in the late first quarter.

(2) KEN & BILL. As soon as the above condition is fully met, their word on the production timeline is "golden". They'll control it and their word will let you know exactly what's happening by when.

I beg your pardon again for the overly long silence and thank you for your kind support. I hope this explains where we're actually at.
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Darrell Hanning
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Personally, I think any creation of John Butterfield's is to be waited on with patience - his work is simply that good. When he's happy with it, I know I'll most likely love what I get as a gamer.

There isn't a whole barrel full of designers I can say that about, and John is quite near the top of a very short list. If I was in John Foley's shoes, I'd be doing everything to protect John Butterfield, too.
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Andrew Kluck
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DarrellKH wrote:
Personally, I think any creation of John Butterfield's is to be waited on with patience - his work is simply that good. When he's happy with it, I know I'll most likely love what I get as a gamer.

There isn't a whole barrel full of designers I can say that about, and John is quite near the top of a very short list. If I was in John Foley's shoes, I'd be doing everything to protect John Butterfield, too.

I bought the pre-order (something I've never done before) based on his previous work and reputation, I guess I can't fault the guy for protecting that reputation.
 
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Gerald Clarke
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I'm down here in Florida, a refugee from Big Sandy, and I just want to say my hometown is a mess. It's going to take a long time to recover; we still do't have power up there.

So when I read the developer's post above on the work his team still has to do, when I hear from the whole hobby of their reputation for creative hard work and integrity, and then I factor in Big Sandy ... What can I say except add my admiration and thanks to the chorus.
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Mr Foley, it's posts like these that prove again and again that you are probably one of the top developers in the wargame industry, either with Mr Butterfield or your fantastic work with Mr Jensen.

Not, enough compliments and get back to work! Can't wait to get this game on my table!
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Dear Patient Fans, I posted the following update yesterday on CSW. I'm copying it here for you. As I get through each of the major delivery points, I'll look to mention the details of progress. Thank you!!

================================================================
Quote:
Here's yet another update on progress. JB and I are both suffering a heavy business travel schedule so making progress is a bit of a challenge.

Complete: The three counter sheets.

Composed: The Allied Action Card deck (used in German Solo) and the German Setup Card deck (used in Allied Solo). Tim is working now on the two Command Card decks.

Composed and in Detailed Proofing: the three maps.

Preparing to be ready for Composition: the three rules sets and player aids. Now this is where the heaviest labor is occurring, so let me advise with a bit more detail.

The 2P rule set: (a) gone over by fine-tooth comb (b) edited and formatted for final composition (c) examples of play have been developed (d) final update for design notes, one scenario, credits need to be done (e) careful parallel proofing is being done by some really helpful volunteers.

The 2P aids: (a) gone over by fine-tooth comb (b) waiting for parallel proofing inputs.

WHEN 2P rules and aids are fully done (prepped), then I'll turn them over for final composition.

The idea is that when Ken (composition) and Tim (final artwork for examples and cover) get the package, we will have already squeezed out all important errors and most if not all of the minor nits.

Let me comment a moment on all this pre-composition formatting and editing. Although I am only working in DOCX and PPTX, I have defined a complete stylesheet for all the content elements. By preparing the input according to a well-defined stylesheet, Ken will be able to consistently and rapidly convert my input into something much more professional - without guesswork. For the examples of play, I always develop a graphical/visual language style so that the artist will know how to correctly interpret and professionally implement graphically what is intended for teaching purposes.

Back to Status.

Then I will turn around and prep the GS rules and aids the same way (including creating additional examples of play).

And then the same for the AS rules and aids.

AND then, rounds of post-proofing (where proofreading compares the composed outputs against the original inputs).

The single most difficult challenge with this work is guaranteeing that rules and aid text that *should* be identical is in fact identical - and - guaranteeing that rules and aid text that should *not* be identical is in fact *not* identical.

Anyway. Work by one or more of us on the team is happening every single day (has been that way for months now).
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Andrew Kluck
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Good to hear, looking forward to playing it.
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David Siskin
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John,

Any updates?
 
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