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Subject: Hungary's Unsanitary Camps rss

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Daniel Bright
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If the Ottomans control Belgrade, and Unsanitary Camps has been played (by perhaps a mischievous Habsburg player) on Buda, Hungary loses two two units from Buda. There now remain 4 or fewer Hungarian units on the map.

The Ottoman player then wins the war against Hungary, and 2vp's are awarded to the Ottomans, and all remaining Hungarian home spaces become Habsburg.

The question is, I suppose; can Unsanitary Camps be played on Hungary?

This would be a very amusing way to activate Hungary at a time when perhaps the Ottomans would rather it wasn't.
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Steven
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First off, that is a very interesting strategy and I just dug though the forums and noticed no ruling on this by Ed.

I would say it is legal. Very wild idea.

EDIT: However, see Kristian's post below. (Added)
 
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Kristian Thy
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Gunulfr ok Øgotr ok Aslakr ok Rolfr resþu sten þænsi æftir Ful, felaga sin, ær warþ ... døþr, þa kunungar barþusk.
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daniel_960112003 wrote:
The question is, I suppose; can Unsanitary Camps be played on Hungary?


Sure.

daniel_960112003 wrote:
This would be a very amusing way to activate Hungary at a time when perhaps the Ottomans would rather it wasn't.


Do note that the fall of Hungary-Bohemia can only occur at the end of a field battle or assault.
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Steven
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Great point Kristian, that is an important fact to remember (I edited my previous post to reference yours).

Now the Ottomans cannot simply win a field battle to cause the fall of Hungary-Bohemia, he still has to assualt the key instead of getting it for free. It would be very situational for sure... and now that I think about it, not as effective as I first thought!
 
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Kristian Thy
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Gunulfr ok Øgotr ok Aslakr ok Rolfr resþu sten þænsi æftir Ful, felaga sin, ær warþ ... døþr, þa kunungar barþusk.
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I've had it happen in a game. I thought we had already discussed it here on BGG, but I can't find the thread.

Basically I as England extracted payment from the Emperor to play Unsanitary Camp on Buda so the Ottomans couldn't win the war on turn 1, costing him a card (the Sultan had only one card left, which would be enough to defeat the Hungarians in field battle, but not to assault Buda).

Another player then sold the John Zapolya event to the Sultan, adding units to Buda in order to enable him to force a field battle
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Daniel Bright
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Cheers; that clarifies it. All it does is weaken Hungary but means Buda goes into siege with 3regs rather 5regs in a field battle. This means the Ottomans will have to actually build regs rather than massive cavalry formations. The effect of the card does probably slow the ottomans down a little bit more, especially if they were counting on a one card field battle conquest of Hungary on turn 1, because they'd then have to siege it.
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Michael Kiefte
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Will W wrote:
Any time I see an Ottoman player attack Buda on turn 1, I think, "new player mistake".


I usually think Easily Manipulated Player. devil

Maybe I shouldn't post this....
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Kristian Thy
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Gunulfr ok Øgotr ok Aslakr ok Rolfr resþu sten þænsi æftir Ful, felaga sin, ær warþ ... døþr, þa kunungar barþusk.
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Will W wrote:
As the Hapsburgs, reducing Buda with Unsanitary Camp buys you one round (since the Ottomans will have to move there and then assault it, with the assault triggering Hungary's surrender no matter what). But why not just use the card on Suleiman's main army, for heaven's sake?


The Emperor might not be the one sitting with the card ...

In my example, I was able to extract payment from the yellow danger in return for inconveniencing the Sultan without hurting him too much.
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Jason Johns
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Will W wrote:
I don't understand the thinking behind this. Most Ottoman players don't try to defeat Hungary on turn 1, since you might well lose the field battle at Buda, which really puts you in a pickle. Any time I see an Ottoman player attack Buda on turn 1, I think, "new player mistake". Much better to take Belgrade for the extra card, take control of Szegedin, and build up forces. Then on turn 2, SD to Szegedin, open with a 4 ops, steamroll the Hungarians, move to Pressburg, control Pressburg, then on to Vienna. (Of course, you can also opt for a less aggressive approach, but this move has a lot to recommend it.)

As the Hapsburgs, reducing Buda with Unsanitary Camp buys you one round (since the Ottomans will have to move there and then assault it, with the assault triggering Hungary's surrender no matter what). But why not just use the card on Suleiman's main army, for heaven's sake?


I often wait til Turn 3 to take Buda, especially if piracy has come out. I want to get Mohacs and Agram on T1 &T2. On T2 you go after the Knights. I also build a ton of troops, build cav in Athens, Salonika and Eirdene (moving the inf back to Istanbul) saving two cards and using my home card at the end of each turn. I take Szegedin on the way into Buda on T3.

I've just seen it work a few times.

I've also been talked into taking Buda on T2 (the haps knew my going slowly plan and shipped too many guys West). I had some really good cards though. Took Buda and then Vienna (didn't get Agram or Mohacs or the Knights). I eventually took Prague (which I keep...) and then won taking on the Pope. And yes, the Haps played poorly.

So, I prefer the T3 option. It also makes people think that you're not so much of a threat. devil
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Zack S.
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The weird thing is that, as written, Hungary will surrender after any field battle or assault, not just one in Hungary. So if someone fights elsewhere before the Ottomans put it under siege the Hapsburgs get Buda.
 
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Kristian Thy
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I think that has been errataed by Ed. I certainly remember having discussed the absurdity of that rule as written.
 
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