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Subject: Supreme court to hear case that could stop us from reselling our board games. rss

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Dale Moore
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The Case is Supap Kirtsaeng v. John Wiley & Sons. A guy was having family members buy textbooks overseas legally and ship them to him. He then resold them.

The problem is the publisher is suing for copyright infringement because the were "Manufactured" overseas. not purchased overseas

So our most of our games.

I heard about this from Ebay. Obviously it would shut auction sites down.


If you want to sign the petition Google Citizens FOR OWNERSHIP RIGHTS.
 
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Rich Shipley
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This would have no impact on individuals reselling their boardgames.

If you have a business importing cheaper versions of copyrighted items to resell in the US, it may affect you. It appears to be what Congress intended to do, so take it up with them if you can compete with the publishing lobby.

http://newsandinsight.thomsonreuters.com/Legal/News/2011/08_...
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Bat Profile
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like this there is a big stink about people being sued for selling legitimate copies of the pdx90 workout dvds....seems the manufacturer is sending vero notices to anyone and everyone they can find on amazon and ebay.

i hope the first sale doctrine wins out
 
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David Boeren
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This looks messy, and I don't think basing it on point of manufacture is a good idea at all. Lots of things manufactured for and sold in the USA are made in other countries.

I could easily see this negating most of "First Sale" for many types of products that are easy to outsource (or already are).
 
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Making something a crime doesn't stop it from happening. Sometimes it has the opposite effect, e.g., prohibition and the war on drugs. Granted board games aren't booze or heroin, but I would argue board games are just as addictive.
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Nate Straight

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Whatever the effect on board games positive or negative, I hope this comes down on the side of the reseller here. The textbook industry is positively insane. It's not an overstatement that you can get identical materials [save for ink / paper / binding; identical content] in an "international edition" for 10-20% of the cost of the US-produced editions. I did this [bought international editions on eBay through guys just like this] throughout my entire graduate degree and easily saved a few thousand.
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Dale Moore
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If they rule for the Publisher this is gonna get real bad over here. Talk about small business taking a hit.
 
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hskrfn822 wrote:
Granted board games aren't booze or heroin, but I would argue board games are just as addictive.


They really, really aren't.
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Rich Shipley
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Dale-not-Chip wrote:
If they rule for the Publisher this is gonna get real bad over here. Talk about small business taking a hit.


Given their track record, I'm pretty sure they will. They threw over 100 years of precedent when they said minimum advertised prices were OK.

But even if I don't agree with it, I don't see it having a major effect in general.
 
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dboeren wrote:
This looks messy, and I don't think basing it on point of manufacture is a good idea at all. Lots of things manufactured for and sold in the USA are made in other countries.
With such a ruling functioning as a fairly attractive lure for certain industries to move manufacturing out of the USA in order to gain perpetual resale rights.

I would think that a court would understand that many things are practically indeterminable when it comes to point-of-manufacture. Do you know where everything in your house was made? "Oh, sorry, Mr. Federal Regulator, I had no idea that wasn't made in America, my bad..."
 
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HarlemMimeSchool wrote:
hskrfn822 wrote:
Granted board games aren't booze or heroin, but I would argue board games are just as addictive.


They really, really aren't.


I was being facetious.
 
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Rich Shipley
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fightcitymayor wrote:
dboeren wrote:
This looks messy, and I don't think basing it on point of manufacture is a good idea at all. Lots of things manufactured for and sold in the USA are made in other countries.
With such a ruling functioning as a fairly attractive lure for certain industries to move manufacturing out of the USA in order to gain perpetual resale rights.

I would think that a court would understand that many things are practically indeterminable when it comes to point-of-manufacture. Do you know where everything in your house was made? "Oh, sorry, Mr. Federal Regulator, I had no idea that wasn't made in America, my bad..."


I don't think that is what the ruling is about. Copyright holders want to be able to enforce distribution limitations when they label products where they can be sold. I don't see any perpetual resale issue here, just one where a US customer can't get a cheaper version of a book made overseas and intended for sale overseas.

I don't necessarily agree with it, but it doesn't seem to be what was represented here.
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Ralph T
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Currently we don't have this situation with boardgames. There is no publisher that is selling the same games in another country cheaper than in the US.
 
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Nate Straight

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ralpher wrote:
Currently we don't have this situation with boardgames. There is no publisher that is selling the same games in another country cheaper than in the US.


That seems incredibly wrong, but I'm not sure a counter-example comes to mind immediately. Japon Brand? Haba?

Regardless, price doesn't seem to be at issue in this case... just point-of-origin and intended distribution locale.


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Athos
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What about other grey markets? I remember buying Leica camera equipment grey market for much less than the official ones. Exact same thing, but but when Leica sells the cameras overseas they are like 25 to 40% less than what they charge here... In a global downturn economy these corporations need to realize they can no longer rip off Americans to pad their bottom line.
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Ralph T
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NateStraight wrote:
ralpher wrote:
Currently we don't have this situation with boardgames. There is no publisher that is selling the same games in another country cheaper than in the US.


That seems incredibly wrong, but I'm not sure a counter-example comes to mind immediately. Japon Brand? Haba?

Regardless, price doesn't seem to be at issue in this case... just point-of-origin and intended distribution locale.



Those companies don't have publishing agreements in the US. They'd be happy if OLGS buy directly from them and import the games to the US.
 
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Nate Straight

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There is definitely a HABA USA branch that operates separately of the European arm.
 
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Dale Moore
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ralpher wrote:
Currently we don't have this situation with boardgames. There is no publisher that is selling the same games in another country cheaper than in the US.


It all depends how they rule. If they rule that you can't resell something manufactured overseas. It matters not where you bought it anymore. the new precedent would be where it was manufactured. Because of the suit they are claiming it's the Manufacturer location not the purchase location that is the copyright infringement.

If that becomes the new legal precedent game publishers could stop us reselling in order to buy their new game.

They might not do it because we are a niche market and you generally don't want to make your limited customers mad. But they could.
 
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Bart Hornung
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hskrfn822 wrote:
HarlemMimeSchool wrote:
hskrfn822 wrote:
Granted board games aren't booze or heroin, but I would argue board games are just as addictive.


They really, really aren't.


I was being facetious.



I need my fix of Mice and Mystics reallly bad. whistle
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Brian Schroth
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The First Sale Doctrine is incredibly important and it's absolutely absurd that the courts have not made it apply to copyrighted items. But this is a topic suited for RSP so I won't get into it here.
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Scott Hill
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bhorn62 wrote:
hskrfn822 wrote:
HarlemMimeSchool wrote:
hskrfn822 wrote:
Granted board games aren't booze or heroin, but I would argue board games are just as addictive.


They really, really aren't.


I was being facetious.



I need my fix of Mice and Mystics reallly bad. whistle


They bust all the Mice and Mystics suppliers, man!
You could get a Monopoly, and some Settlers of Catan for the comedown.
 
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Enrico Viglino
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HarlemMimeSchool wrote:
hskrfn822 wrote:
Granted board games aren't booze or heroin, but I would argue board games are just as addictive.


They really, really aren't.


I think it depends on the person.
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Tomello Visello
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HarlemMimeSchool wrote:
hskrfn822 wrote:
Granted board games aren't booze or heroin, but I would argue board games are just as addictive.


They really, really aren't.
Ummm. I think I read somewhere that admitting you have a problem is the first step toward recovery ....

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Federico
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This is unbelievable. Us and EU are going in opposite directions.

In EU the European Court of Justice ruled (basically) that you should be allowed to resell digital goods and that DRM preventing you from using them should be removed. I guess this will be extremely hard to enforce, but at least we have this ruling.

I really hope the superme court won't stop resale.
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Andy Mills
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Well, what does Disney say? They've essentially been writing US copyright law for the past 80 years.
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