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Subject: Was this correct? rss

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Mark Hatton
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1) Dexter moved to "The Unnameable" and drew a card with "A gate and monster appear".

2) I move him to the "Plateau of Leng" and lay him on his side as delayed

3) Next turn, during the Other World Encounter phase, he successfully casts his "Find Gate" spell and I return him to "The Unnameable"

4) Next turn he fought and defeated the "Maniac" and then successfully closed and sealed the gate.

My question are: Can I play the "Find Gate" spell before I have an encounter in the "Plateau of Leng" correct? Can I close the gate after using the "Find Gate" spell? Do I have to defeat or evade the monster before closing the gate?
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Dan
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Alaric1805 wrote:
1) Dexter moved to "The Unnameable" and drew a card with "A gate and monster appear".

2) I move him to the "Plateau of Leng" and lay him on his side as delayed


Everything is done right up to here.


Alaric1805 wrote:
3) Next turn, during the Other World Encounter phase, he successfully casts his "Find Gate" spell and I return him to "The Unnameable"


You made a small mistake here. Find Gate is cast during Phase 2, not Phase 4. There is an ongoing debate here as to whether a delayed investigator can cast spells during their movement phase. You must decide one way or the other how you wish to play it.

Alaric1805 wrote:
4) Next turn he fought and defeated the "Maniac" and then successfully closed and sealed the gate.


You also engage monsters during Phase 2, however you have the option to not engage a monster on a location that you are returning to from the Other World, on the turn that you return there. So in other words, if you had allowed the investigator to cast Find Gate on their turn, they would have had the option to not encounter the maniac this turn.

Alaric1805 wrote:
My question are: Can I play the "Find Gate" spell before I have an encounter in the "Plateau of Leng" correct? Can I close the gate after using the "Find Gate" spell? Do I have to defeat or evade the monster before closing the gate?


So the answers are: a) Yes, because Find Gate is cast on Phase 2. b) Yes, you can close a gate after returning via Find Gate (or any other method). c) You had the option to ignore him on the first turn that you returned.

Hope this helps.
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J
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Alaric1805 wrote:
1) Dexter moved to "The Unnameable" and drew a card with "A gate and monster appear".

2) I move him to the "Plateau of Leng" and lay him on his side as delayed

3) Next turn, during the Other World Encounter phase, he successfully casts his "Find Gate" spell and I return him to "The Unnameable"

4) Next turn he fought and defeated the "Maniac" and then successfully closed and sealed the gate.

My question are: Can I play the "Find Gate" spell before I have an encounter in the "Plateau of Leng" correct? Can I close the gate after using the "Find Gate" spell? Do I have to defeat or evade the monster before closing the gate?


Find gate is played during the movement phase not encounter phase (look at the spell and you'll see it says movement phase).

Closing gates occur during the Arkham encounter phase which is after the movement phase so yes you can close the gate the same turn you use find gate to leave an area. The Other World encounter phase is after the Arkham encounter phase and way after the movement phase so on the turn you use find gate you do not need to have an other world encounter.

You do not need to defeate or evade the monsters the turn you come back from other worlds even if you are using find gate to do so. You may encounter them and fight them if you so desire but it is optional.

And a bonus explanation. If an investigator draws and encounter which opens a gate on his/her location than this occurs in the Arkham encounter phase. They go into the other world and are delayed. When the otherworld encounter phase occurs since they are in an other world despite the fact they are delayed they have an other world encounter (on the same turn they were sucked in).

Additionally if your character was delayed your character could NOT cast find gate during the movement phase and would have been forced to take another encounter on the following turn.

The Correct list would have been like this:
Turn 1
1) Dexter moved to "The Unnameable" and drew a card with "A gate and monster appear".

2) I move him to the "Plateau of Leng" and lay him on his side as delayed

3) During the Other World encounter Phase Dexter has an other world encounter because he is in an other world. If the encounter doesn't return him to Arkham or cause him to go to Lost in time in space Dexter remains on his space (Note an investigator cannot be doubly delayed).

Turn 2
4) During the Movement phase Dexter Stands up and may do nothing else.

5) During the Other World encounter Phase Dexter has another other world encounter because he is in an other world. If the encounter doesn't return him to Arkham or cause him to go to Lost in time in space or delay him Dexter remains standing on his space.

Turn 3
6) During Movement Dexter can Finally cast his spell cause he is no longer delayed. If he succeeds he returns to Arkham and may optionally choose to encounter the monsters on the space he returns to.

7) Dexter May try to close the gate during the Arkham encounter Phase


Edit: I was unaware there is a debate on whether a delayed investigator can cast spells. I thought it was ruled that a delayed investigator may only stand up during his movement phase. The decision on this ruling would affect the steps above.
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mateo jurasic
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is it really optional to engage monsters on a gate the turn you return to arkham? I dont see the in the rulebook. In my understanding, you simply dont attack monsters the turn you return from a gate, but I could be wrong.

Mateo
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Bern Harkins
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mateooo wrote:
is it really optional to engage monsters on a gate the turn you return to arkham? I dont see the in the rulebook


pg, 18, center column, 4rth paragraph. The layout makes this one easy to miss, and many people do.
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mateo jurasic
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hmmm. "During the turn he returns to arkham from an outer world, an investigator does not have to evade or fight any monsters in the gate's location."
Not 100% clear, but that could be interpreted 2 ways...
1) investigators dont fight the turn they come out
2) investigators can choose to fight the turn they come out.


hmmm, any idea if this has ever been FAQed?
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foksieloy
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"Does not have to" specifically means there is a choice to be made.

If the wording was "Does not evade or fight" then there is no choice.
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MC Crispy
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Rianane wrote:
Alaric1805 wrote:
3) Next turn, during the Other World Encounter phase, he successfully casts his "Find Gate" spell and I return him to "The Unnameable"


You made a small mistake here. Find Gate is cast during Phase 2, not Phase 4. There is an ongoing debate here as to whether a delayed investigator can cast spells during their movement phase. You must decide one way or the other how you wish to play it.
The essential debate is over whether you lose you Movement Points when you are Delayed, or whether you lose your Movement Phase. The first case precludes the reading of Tomes but not the casting of spells, while the second case is pretty self explanatory. I prefer the second case because it seems to have a more consistent internal logic and it marries with my Thematic picture better. However, I understand that others view it differently.
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mateo jurasic
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foksieloy wrote:
"Does not have to" specifically means there is a choice to be made.

If the wording was "Does not evade or fight" then there is no choice.


if fantasy flight was always consistent with its rules and language, I would agree with you, but Ive learned to not trust FFG rule books.

its strange that that would be, i think, the only time in the entire game that you are given a choice between fighting and not fighting, or encountering and not encountering something, and it doesnt seem to go with how arkham is played. this really does potentially give investigators a big advantage.
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MC Crispy
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mateooo wrote:
foksieloy wrote:
"Does not have to" specifically means there is a choice to be made.

If the wording was "Does not evade or fight" then there is no choice.


if fantasy flight was always consistent with its rules and language, I would agree with you, but Ive learned to not trust FFG rule books.

its strange that that would be, i think, the only time in the entire game that you are given a choice between fighting and not fighting, or encountering and not encountering something, and it doesnt seem to go with how arkham is played. this really does potentially give investigators a big advantage.
I think that it deals with the problem that arises when a Gate opens in your Location during Mythos. There are some situations where a big stack of Monsters could appear on the Gate and still be there when you Return to Arkham. If you had to fight them at the end of the Movement when you do return then you would regularly fail to Close Gates for reasons other than Gate difficulty. Your fellow Investigators couldn't help because they'd be drawn through the Gate after dealing with the Monsters and then you'd either have Investigators who were LiTaS or you'd have to wait for them to return themselves. I think this would significantly increase the difficulty. So I don't believe that it "gives Investigators a big advantage", I believe it avoids giving them an occasional huge disadvantage. If you think that your interpretation is the true situation then I suggest that you try playing it your way - especially with 5 or more Investigators - then come back and report your experience. Me, I'm sticking with the rules because I believe that they do it right (even if one might think them odd - but this is a board game not a simulation, so one should expect the occasional "oddity").
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mateo jurasic
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i have only played arkham where you CANT fight monsters the first round you come out of a gate.... but I could have misunderstood the rules. it is a disadvantage, especially when there are easy monsters to kill, but you have to waste turns.


so, when you play, are you allowed to fight "some" of the monsters and ignore the others? of if you attack one, you have to attack all?
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MC Crispy
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mateooo wrote:
i have only played arkham where you CANT fight monsters the first round you come out of a gate.... but I could have misunderstood the rules. it is a disadvantage, especially when there are easy monsters to kill, but you have to waste turns.


so, when you play, are you allowed to fight "some" of the monsters and ignore the others? of if you attack one, you have to attack all?
If you decide to encounter the Monsters on the Phase that you Return to Arkham then you encounter them all. Of course you don't have to enter into Combat with them all - you could Evade some. In effect you are just waiving your "right" to the "free pass" that you get on the turn that you return.
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Dan
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mccrispy wrote:
mateooo wrote:
i have only played arkham where you CANT fight monsters the first round you come out of a gate.... but I could have misunderstood the rules. it is a disadvantage, especially when there are easy monsters to kill, but you have to waste turns.


so, when you play, are you allowed to fight "some" of the monsters and ignore the others? of if you attack one, you have to attack all?
If you decide to encounter the Monsters on the Phase that you Return to Arkham then you encounter them all. Of course you don't have to enter into Combat with them all - you could Evade some. In effect you are just waiving your "right" to the "free pass" that you get on the turn that you return.

Concur
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Bern Harkins
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Rianane wrote:
mccrispy wrote:
mateooo wrote:
i have only played arkham where you CANT fight monsters the first round you come out of a gate.... but I could have misunderstood the rules. it is a disadvantage, especially when there are easy monsters to kill, but you have to waste turns.


so, when you play, are you allowed to fight "some" of the monsters and ignore the others? of if you attack one, you have to attack all?
If you decide to encounter the Monsters on the Phase that you Return to Arkham then you encounter them all. Of course you don't have to enter into Combat with them all - you could Evade some. In effect you are just waiving your "right" to the "free pass" that you get on the turn that you return.

Concur


My group plays otherwise; we allow an Investigator to pick and choose which Monsters he wishes to fight, evade or ignore on the turn of their Return to Arkham. Fighting a monster (or two, or five) does not trigger any game effect which would remove any remaining monsters from the category "any monster in the gate's location"... and if it is the turn on which you have Returned to Arkham, you do not have to fight or evade any of those. Or so I see it.
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foksieloy
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Radulla wrote:
My group plays otherwise; we allow an Investigator to pick and choose which Monsters he wishes to fight, evade or ignore on the turn of their Return to Arkham. Fighting a monster (or two, or five) does not trigger any game effect which would remove any remaining monsters from the category "any monster in the gate's location"... and if it is the turn on which you have Returned to Arkham, you do not have to fight or evade any of those. Or so I see it.


This is how we have been playing it too.
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MC Crispy
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foksieloy wrote:
Radulla wrote:
My group plays otherwise; we allow an Investigator to pick and choose which Monsters he wishes to fight, evade or ignore on the turn of their Return to Arkham. Fighting a monster (or two, or five) does not trigger any game effect which would remove any remaining monsters from the category "any monster in the gate's location"... and if it is the turn on which you have Returned to Arkham, you do not have to fight or evade any of those. Or so I see it.


This is how we have been playing it too.
Yup, I understand you. I just don't agree .

I don't think that it's fully explained in the rules or FAQ (whether it's fully explained in the NecronomiFAQ only time will tell), so we're on our own and there's no right or wrong. My preference is to avoid "selectivism" in interpreting rules because it always seems to lead to choosing the easy way, something that I'm not a fan of (or at least not in this game).
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David Williams
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Continuing. If I return from the OW to a gate with a monster on it, and I choose to ignore it and then I close and seal the gate. Does the monster remain (and I'll have to fight him next turn) or does he get thrown out into the street?
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Austin Fleming
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The monster stays where it is unless it's symbol matches the symbol on the gate, in which case it returns to the cup.
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Liam Whalen
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Assuming the monster's geometric symbol doesn't match the geometric symbol on the gate, the monster remains in the location and you will have to sneak or fight it next turn. If the symbols match then the monster is returned to the cup.
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