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Vietnam 1965-1975» Forums » Sessions

Subject: A lone search for Charlie. Summer 1965. rss

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Petri P
Finland
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US planned deployment strategy for the first year.

After the year has passed, there should be (100 commitment to be used):

1st Cavalry division in the IV corps. Airmobile infantry works well in the Mekong Delta.
3rd Marine division in the I corps (to be completed.)
23rd division in the II corps. Long range artillery is good in the difficult terrain.
An infantry division in the III corps. This division will be rotated to save commitment later.
ARVN divisions and Rangers will be completely built.
100 air points, 10 medium artillery units, support points, replacements, economic aid as needed.

With the above force, it should be possible to catch 25+ VC battalions a season. This will leave 24 commitment to operate while still starving NLF from a possibility of an offensive. If needed, troops might be withdrawn for replacements to keep commitment below 150.

NVN will provide supplies for VC, and upgrade trail and air defense for the future.


Summer 1965

The game starts, skipping the pacification phase.

Strategic War Phase:

Unrestrained bombing allows US morale to be converted to ARVN morale at a 2.66 to 4 rate, and does not raise US commitment. Thus, it will be used every turn until SVN morale is high enough.

US declares Unrestrained Bombing of the North, using 1 air point, to raise SVN Morale. No hits. SVN morale raises by 4, US morale drops by 2. NLF will receive 14 sea supply for the two commitment, as the naval point interdicts some.

Politics Phase:

III Corps leader has a doubtful loyalty. US tries to replace him.. and he stays, becomes pro-coup, and III corps units will all be ineffective. That leader has now a loyalty of 7.

Air Force leader is disloyal. Replacement attempt makes him pro-coup, and loyalty 5.

2nd division excellent leader is disloyal. Replacement attempt fails, leaves the division ineffective.
7th division average leader is disloyal. Replacement attempt succeeds! The new leader is B4, loyalty 10.
25th division excellent leader is disloyal. Replacement attempt fails, leaves the division ineffective.
Marine leader has doubtful loyalty. Replacement attempt fails.

Coup roll of 7 means 4 loyal, 2 pro-coup, one wavering. Relative stability. (SVN morale too low for the risk of a failed, induced, coup yet.)

SVN morale drops by -4. (-1 for population control, -3 for Bao Dai.)
"A" leaders lose one loyalty. II corps leader must be targeted for disloyalty next turn.
US morale raises by one, for Bao Dai.
NVN morale raises by 8.

Recruitment Phase:

The armored cavalry battalions of 2nd and 25th division, and the Marine regiment are withdrawn. ARVN draft level drops by 1, disloyal and incompetent leaders are returned to the pool. This left a capital empty, NLF will get it by building directly on it. (And a town, but there are many empty towns now. Hue, which had the regiment, is a port and also had an armored cavalry, so it is not threatened).

US Withdraws the Naval Point, saving 4 commitment.

US uses 8 commitment for 56 SVN Supplies.

SVN builds a regiment from each of the divsions which were completely withdrawn. (6 supplies, 3 draft). The new leaders are: Marine A3 loyalty 7, 2nd C1 loyalty 9, 25th C4, loyalty 9. No divisional leaders have negative effectiveness now.

For the rest of the ten divisions, ARVN builds a HQ + a Regiment, distributing them in the different corps depending on the two star leader ratings. No division should be permanently ineffective. (20 draft, 50 supplies).

US sends 2 economic aid to SVN, for 2 (only, sigh) SVN morale.
US brings in the 1C division to the delta. 9 commitment.
US purchases 2 helicopters, 12 replacements and 15 air. 25 commitment used total. (29, -4 for naval point).

US Commitment is now 50. Rolling for Koreans: Capital -> 3rd regiment is available. 9th entire -> is available!, Marine -> not yet. Koreans can't be brought in yet, because of the commitment limit.

NLF gets 72 trail supply and 14 sea supply for 10 commitment.
NVN builds one level of air defense (3) and improves the trail by one box (5). All commitment used.

NLF builds 30 VC replacement points, using 30 Trail Supply and 10 draft.

NLF builds 4 battalions near sea, and 21 battalions near border, using 8 sea supply, all trail supply, and 25 draft. 6 Sea supply is converted to supply pool. The empty capital of Chau Phu was built on.

All battalions are on the board.

NVN commits 6 Trail Supply and 2 Sea Supply for the next season.

ARVN effectiveness roll is 3. Seven divisions, all corps and chief of staff troops are effective, except the III corps.

At start:

US Repl 15
ARVN Repl 28
VC Repl 30
NVA Repl 4
Trans 4
Air avail 34, total 35


1st Turn:

NLF Patrolled, NVA Evacuated to the trail. US/ARVN made Search & Destroy operations. NLF tried to Hold the captured capital, failed.

2nd Turn:

This picture shows the situation during the 2nd turn - NLF has not yet moved to open, some US operations have been made.



2nd Turn NLF Patrolled and surged even more units to cultivated areas to contest pacification. US/ARVN made Search & Destroy operations.

For this season, US mostly did single battalion missions, those should succeed, unless VC rolls very well for Alert. VC had excellent Alert rolls throughout the season, leading to escape or low odds pursuits. (not enough artillery yet in Vietnam). The captured capital was recaptured by the ARVN.

US combat rolls were horrible, almost every attack caused US losses, often not causing VC losses.. and then the battalion started to run away.

US/ARVN losses: 3 Air Points, 6 US Replacement Points, 4 ARVN Replacememnt Points.
VC/NVA losses: 7 Bn worth of units (3 Bn, 4 Political Section), 7 VC Replacement Points.

At the end of Summer 65:

US Morale: 519
US Commitment: 50
NVN Morale: 18
NVN Commitment: 18
SVN Morale: 67
SVN Draft Level: 37
SVN Population: 217
NLF Draft Level: 80
NLF Population: 143
NLF Supply Pool: 6


(edit: fixed a typo)
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Randy Knight
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Hi

A thought on the implementation of the ARVN leadership Training program, regarding the placement of the initial 11 divisional armored cavalry units. You stated:

Recruitment Phase:

The armored cavalry battalions of 2nd and 25th division, and the Marine regiment are withdrawn. ARVN draft level drops by 1, disloyal and incompetent leaders are returned to the pool. This left a capital empty, NLF will get it by building directly on it. (And a town, but there are many empty towns now. Hue, which had the regiment, is a port and also had an armored cavalry, so it is not threatened).


Ideally, the ARVN player should place the initial 11 divisional armored cavalry units in the 10 ports! That way, when you swap out the units that have poor leadership, you can replace them with new units (in the port cities). This way, you would not have allowed the NLF to grab the capitol!

It's a minor change, but prevents what happened from happening!

Randy
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Randy Knight
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Hi

You wrote:

For this season, US mostly did single battalion missions, those should succeed, unless VC rolls very well for Alert. VC had excellent Alert rolls throughout the season, leading to escape or low odds pursuits. (not enough artillery yet in Vietnam). The captured capital was recaptured by the ARVN.

and

US combat rolls were horrible, almost every attack caused US losses, often not causing VC losses.. and then the battalion started to run away.

I suggest that these US losses must stop immediately! The US Commander must reconsider!

The US cannot take that kind of loss and expect to help for long in the Campaign. I would use an ARVN unit (especially for these single battalion missions you are performing!). The ARVN must pull their weight from the start. I'd even recommend using the US battalions to garrison the capitols, and let the ARVN chase the VC out of the cultivated, since a single ARVN unit will effectively clear a cultivated hex just as well as a US unit. May give the VC a +1 boost to Alert, but this is well worth the trade-off in US replacement savings. Well worth letting a few get away!

Or better yet, build the Rangers immediately. I built them for Summer 1965, and had a Ranger (or Rangers) available in almost every operation from the start, and always took ARVN replacement losses, never US losses. It worked wonders to keep the US morale up, and let them stay a LONG time in the campaign...

Losing a US replacement = 1/3 of a US commitment. This is unacceptable to me!

Losing an ARVN replacement = 1/14 of a US commitment. This is very acceptable to me!

I think the ARVN Rangers are the greatest asset the US player has, and must be built ASAP (read immediately) in order to efficiently use the resources available to the FWA player.

The Rangers allow drawing ARVN REPL instead of US REPL, and they add multiple units to every S&D they show up for (which is most of them!). Plus, of course, they help positionally, to channel the direction the VC flee toward.

Randy

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Mark McG
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petrip wrote:

US planned deployment strategy for the first year.

After the year has passed, there should be (100 commitment to be used):

1st Cavalry division in the IV corps. Airmobile infantry works well in the Mekong Delta.
3rd Marine division in the I corps (to be completed.)
23rd division in the II corps. Long range artillery is good in the difficult terrain.
An infantry division in the III corps. This division will be rotated to save commitment later.


My preferences are
I Corps - 23 Div. The artillery can really cover the narrow area.
II Corps - 1 Air Cav, because of the width
III Corps - rotating Inf Division
IV Corps - Marines and Riverines

I like Riverine points, no support losses. Very efficient in the Delta, and use 3rd Deployment.
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Randy Knight
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Minedog3 wrote:
petrip wrote:

US planned deployment strategy for the first year.

After the year has passed, there should be (100 commitment to be used):

1st Cavalry division in the IV corps. Airmobile infantry works well in the Mekong Delta.
3rd Marine division in the I corps (to be completed.)
23rd division in the II corps. Long range artillery is good in the difficult terrain.
An infantry division in the III corps. This division will be rotated to save commitment later.


My preferences are
I Corps - 23 Div. The artillery can really cover the narrow area.
II Corps - 1 Air Cav, because of the width
III Corps - rotating Inf Division
IV Corps - Marines and Riverines

I like Riverine points, no support losses. Very efficient in the Delta, and use 3rd Deployment.


I generally concur with Mark on this.

I Corps - Almost any of the normal infantry divisions function well here.
The 23rd has the extra independent artillery for kick.

II Corps - 1 Air Cav and 101st airmobile. You really need the mobility here with so many mountains and so far to reach. I think this is the best place for the inherently airmobile boys. The road net is not as extensive here, and leaves many pockets that are hard to reach without helicopters. Because I found myself using airmobile movement continuously in II Corps, I moved the inherently airmobile troops here to save resources elsewhere. I include the southern part of I Corps as within range of the airmobile boys also, because of the vast mountains.

III Corps - rotating infantry division.Later in the Campaign (1971), I moved the 3rd Marine from the Delta to III Corps to protect the Saigon/Tay Ninh/ Parrot Beak Area. I found that later in the Campaign that just a single US division (1st Marine) was sufficient for the Delta protection.

IV Corps - 1st Marine & 3rd Marine Divisions with plenty of riverine support. Most any unit can move its full movement allowance in the wide open Delta anyways. The riverines are good for when you hit river and swamp terrain.

Randy
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Petri P
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aslredbarricades wrote:
Hi

I suggest that these US losses must stop immediately! The US Commander must reconsider!

The US cannot take that kind of loss and expect to help for long in the Campaign. I would use an ARVN unit (especially for these single battalion missions you are performing!).

Or better yet, build the Rangers immediately. I built them for Summer 1965, and had a Ranger (or Rangers) available in [u]almost every


Good advice. I intend to hand the fight to ARVN starting Spring 66. Before that, it is difficult to get ARVN up to speed, having a maximum of 25 new commitment a turn. (SVN port & airfield capacity variant rule).
 
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