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Star Wars: X-Wing Miniatures Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: Acceleration and Deceleration rss

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Sagar Kumaraswamy
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If I am playing a TIE fighter can I chose the Straight ahead 5 template on turn 1, then next turn chose the straight ahead 1 template?

It seems to me that if a ship performing a high speed 90 degree turn gains a stress token, then such rapid acceleraion or deceleration should also gain the wrath of the stress gods, or am I missing something?

Thanks

Sagar
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Couple of things:

TIE Fighters can't choose the straight ahead 1 template.

TIE Fighters don't get a stress token for 90 degree turns.
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Guido Gloor
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qubilai2001 wrote:
It seems to me that if a ship performing a high speed 90 degree turn gains a stress token, then such rapid acceleraion or deceleration should also gain the wrath of the stress gods, or am I missing something?

That would introduce more bookkeeping than the designer was comfortable with, I guess. Struck me as odd at first as well, but after having played the game, it would definitely complicate things.
 
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Chad Marlett
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With Star Wars, you need to think in terms that the propulsion on the ships is not a conventional rocket. They do not have momentum along a velocity vector, they always go in the direction of the nose, allowing them to maneuver basically like an airplane.

My view is that whatever propulsion enables the ships to move at the speeds that they do is non-newtonian (warp bubble, whatever). This means you stop the engine, the ship stops. They might coast slowly with no engine, but this speed is so slow that it is below the scale of the game. Kind of like Star Fleet Battles where sublight speed is 1, and warp speeds are up to 32; '1' or less is where inertia and known physics applies.

Other games (Full Thrust, Attack Vector, Hard Vacuum) model ships with more plausible propulsion systems and movement, but the mental overhead is far higher, and of course they don't maneuver like Star Wars ships.


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Sagar Kumaraswamy
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Gryfon wrote:
With Star Wars, you need to think in terms that the propulsion on the ships is not a conventional rocket. They do not have momentum along a velocity vector, they always go in the direction of the nose, allowing them to maneuver basically like an airplane.

My view is that whatever propulsion enables the ships to move at the speeds that they do is non-newtonian (warp bubble, whatever). This means you stop the engine, the ship stops. They might coast slowly with no engine, but this speed is so slow that it is below the scale of the game. Kind of like Star Fleet Battles where sublight speed is 1, and warp speeds are up to 32; '1' or less is where inertia and known physics applies.

Other games (Full Thrust, Attack Vector, Hard Vacuum) model ships with more plausible propulsion systems and movement, but the mental overhead is far higher, and of course they don't maneuver like Star Wars ships.


 
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Sagar Kumaraswamy
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Gryfon wrote:
With Star Wars, you need to think in terms that the propulsion on the ships is not a conventional rocket. They do not have momentum along a velocity vector, they always go in the direction of the nose, allowing them to maneuver basically like an airplane.

My view is that whatever propulsion enables the ships to move at the speeds that they do is non-newtonian (warp bubble, whatever). This means you stop the engine, the ship stops. They might coast slowly with no engine, but this speed is so slow that it is below the scale of the game. Kind of like Star Fleet Battles where sublight speed is 1, and warp speeds are up to 32; '1' or less is where inertia and known physics applies.

Other games (Full Thrust, Attack Vector, Hard Vacuum) model ships with more plausible propulsion systems and movement, but the mental overhead is far higher, and of course they don't maneuver like Star Wars ships.




Totally forgot to add the comment!!

I agree that there are many assumptions and approximations made in this game not the least of which of it is played in 2 dimensions!!

Trying to model newtonian dynamics in space games is a waste of time (Elite Frontier anyone?) but if your going to try to model 'airplane' manouvers, such as 'high G' turns it seems a bit strange not to include rapid deceleration and acceleration.

It doesn't detract from the game but I was just wondering if I'd missed something
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Joseph Gesumaria
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Also you have to think a little outside the box on this and more like a Pen and Paper RPG. You can't really think of it in terms of GO REAL FAST THEN STOP. You have to look at it as an overall battle. Maybe during his high speed 5 template he had started to shut down the engines and throw them in reverse a bit to set up the next 1 template. It's like when you go through another ship there's nothing SHOWING you go over or around it but it just kinda happens all at once "Abstractly".

Plus the 180 flip around is al ot more than just spinning the ship in a circle. It's probably easiest described as an Immelmann turn which is basically a backflip that ends in you facing and flying in the the other direction. I've always just figured it as less about G's the pilots dealing with and more about how much actual flying and calculations the Pilot is doing in the time frame of his "turn". Because honestly if each pilot's "Turn" is 5 seconds long in the game world you gotta thing the pilot is accelerating flipping barrel rolling a bit to not be upside down and orienting yourself all in that time frame.

I may be thinking WAY to much into this but it's just how I've justified it lol.
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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This is represented by the different maneuver wheels. TIEs have awesome engines and allow this stuff. Y-Wings don't (note some of their turns are stressful). Plus, the speed is reflected by predictive speed (I.e. a TIE that shifts from 5 to 2 is slowing down last turn, no one just recognized it).


-shnar
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Kevin Smith
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qubilai2001 wrote:
If I am playing a TIE fighter can I chose the Straight ahead 5 template on turn 1, then next turn chose the straight ahead 1 template?
It seems to me that if a ship performing a high speed 90 degree turn gains a stress token, then such rapid acceleraion or deceleration should also gain the wrath of the stress gods, or am I missing something?
Thanks
Sagar

As others have already said, when you introduce acceleration and deceleration, then you introduce having to track movement from turn to turn. By eliminating acceleration and deceleration, everything you need to know about movement is contained on one small dial.
I'm also used to games where movement is tracked from turn to turn (Check Your 6, Blue Max, Crimson Skies), but in this case I think the game works great without having to worry about it. After all, it's Star Wars...

Kevin
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Luis Fernandez
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Im still not understand discussion about ships "STRESSING" in the vacuum space...

the stress is used to keep some gaming control.
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Ethan McKinney
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It's not ship stress, it's pilot stress.
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Andrew Lieffring
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Luisjoey wrote:
Im still not understand discussion about ships "STRESSING" in the vacuum space...

the stress is used to keep some gaming control.


In my headcanon, Star Wars space isn't a vacuum. The ships move like airplanes, there's something propagating the sounds they make, and explosions make bigger fireballs than on-board life support would account for. Yes, every one of these can be explained by the fact that the movies would be objectively worse if they went the other way, and it creates a whole new set of problems larger than the ones it solves, but the great thing about pet theories is you keep the parts you like and throw the rest out.
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Chad Marlett
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...and whatever stress is, I think it is an excellent game element.

If looping or very hard turns have no downside, that is what nearly every player will do every turn.

Based on my extensive X-Wing simulator time (), turning as hard as you can makes it extremely difficult to have any spatial awareness of the battle going on around you, even if the G-forces are not squashing you into your easy chair.
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James Barnes
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AS Ethan says it is pilot stress going fast or slow is fine, going fast then chaging direction 180 then going fast the other way that is what makes you puke in your helmet... or the pilot is monitoring all sorts of beeps and whistles and that on the 180, whereas slowing down quickly is fine....or the slow move after the fast move is an altitude change that you cant see (2d vs 3d) or its a game mechanic and a simplification
 
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