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Subject: Combining both expansions rss

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Giacomo Peroni
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Hello,
I love this game and like both the expansions too.
The problem is that the 2 expansions seem not too much compatible between them.
How do you suggest to combine the 2 expansions in a single, not too much long or complicated experience?
Thanks.
 
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Probably the way the Exodus rulebook tells you to do it.
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Robert Stewart
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The only significant incompatibility is between New Caprica and the Ionian Nebula. While it's a little off theme, the best suggestion I can give for combining them is to play with trauma and allies, set up the Battle for the Ionian Nebula at distance 7 and do Crossroads, then move surviving civilians and player characters to New Caprica, leaving the Cylon ships set up. Aside from not setting up the Cylon ships for New Caprica (the setup is the same as for IN, so the only change is the effects of Crossroads), the endgame plays out as normal for New Caprica.

You may want to consider boosting starting morale - both New Cap and Crossroads can give it a pounding...

If you're not trying to combine NC and IN, then the Exodus rulebook has it covered.
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Robert
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There are problems with treachery if you combine both Expansions.
Apart from the problem with Broadcast Location if you use the CFB there is the dilution of treachery cards (and CACs if you use them) in the crisis deck, which further reduces the already low impact of treachery on the game.

My suggestion to counter this problem is to shuffle the Base Game and Exodus crisis cards without CACs first. Then randomly remove 34 crisis cards if you play with the CACs and 17 crisis cards if you play with the CFB. And finally mix in the Pegasus Crisis Cards with the CACs (if you use them). This avoids the dilution of CACs and treachery cards in the crisis pile and has worked well for me.
 
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Pieter
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Following Robert: indeed, do not use the CFB when you combine Exodus with Pegasus, and take out 34 non-assault crises before you shuffle.

Moreover, do NOT play a Cylon Leader or a Sympathetic Cylon when complex destiny is involved, as some of the agenda's are rather undoable with Personal Goals involved.
 
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Todd Warnken
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My group uses everything from Pegasus except for New Caprica and everything from Exodus. We have human victories and Cylon victories.
 
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umbaci wrote:
There are problems with treachery if you combine both Expansions.
Apart from the problem with Broadcast Location if you use the CFB there is the dilution of treachery cards (and CACs if you use them) in the crisis deck, which further reduces the already low impact of treachery on the game.

I've never found Broadcast Location to be THAT big of an issue, although I will admit we don't abuse it. HOwever, I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt that it'd still come up rarely, as most characters don't draw treachery on their own. That, and the odds of getting a braod. Loc. still need to happen.


umbaci wrote:
My suggestion to counter this problem is to shuffle the Base Game and Exodus crisis cards without CACs first. Then randomly remove 34 crisis cards if you play with the CACs and 17 crisis cards if you play with the CFB. And finally mix in the Pegasus Crisis Cards with the CACs (if you use them). This avoids the dilution of CACs and treachery cards in the crisis pile and has worked well for me.


6 of the 23 skill check crisis cards and 3 of 6 event crisis cards involve Treachery. 1 of 2 super crisis cards has Treachery involvement. To me, that's a lost cause anyways, but I can see why some folks may go for this to fight and keep them around.

On one hand, too much Treachery could cause players to lean more towards Airlock and exections, as At Any Cost only has 3 copies of itself (and at 3 - 5 strength, it's tempting at times to play it for its strength.). OTOH, some folks view it "philosophically acceptable" if none these crisis cards got drawn [shrug].

If nothing else, I'd consider adding an additional 2 brown cards (for a total of 14) to each Destiny deck and call it a day. Add only +1, and when you only have 1 left, redo Destiny... with that 1 unknown card throwing a loop towards card counters (though it'll slow down the game if it's harder to see that Destiny only has 1 card left and needs a reshuffle)
 
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Giacomo Peroni
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Thanks all for the reply.

ackmondual wrote:
If nothing else, I'd consider adding an additional 2 brown cards (for a total of 14) to each Destiny deck and call it a day. Add only +1, and when you only have 1 left, redo Destiny... with that 1 unknown card throwing a loop towards card counters (though it'll slow down the game if it's harder to see that Destiny only has 1 card left and needs a reshuffle)


I don't think that's a good idea. When discarding destiny before reshuffling, the players looking to the discards for setting them in their correct discard piles will know if treachery cards came from the deck or from an aggressive hidden cylon player.
 
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Robert Stewart
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gixx wrote:
Thanks all for the reply.

ackmondual wrote:
If nothing else, I'd consider adding an additional 2 brown cards (for a total of 14) to each Destiny deck and call it a day. Add only +1, and when you only have 1 left, redo Destiny... with that 1 unknown card throwing a loop towards card counters (though it'll slow down the game if it's harder to see that Destiny only has 1 card left and needs a reshuffle)


I don't think that's a good idea. When discarding destiny before reshuffling, the players looking to the discards for setting them in their correct discard piles will know if treachery cards came from the deck or from an aggressive hidden cylon player.


The usual procedure for rebuilding Destiny when it still has cards in (used in variants aimed at countering card counting) is to add the new cards to the existing ones and shuffle.

When it comes to tracking when to rebuild Destiny, I suggest turning the bottom card(s) of Destiny sideways when you rebuild - when you play in the last non-sideways card, it's time to rebuild.
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Robert
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Flyboy Connor wrote:
Moreover, do NOT play a Cylon Leader or a Sympathetic Cylon when complex destiny is involved, as some of the agenda's are rather undoable with Personal Goals involved.


Pieter, what do you mean by "complex destiny"? And how do Personal Goals interfere with Agendas?
Thanks for the explanation.
 
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umbaci wrote:
Flyboy Connor wrote:
Moreover, do NOT play a Cylon Leader or a Sympathetic Cylon when complex destiny is involved, as some of the agenda's are rather undoable with Personal Goals involved.


What do you mean by "complex destiny"? Maybe you mean "conflicted loyalty"? And how do Personal Goals interfere with Agendas?
Thanks for the explanation.
He's jumping into variants.... this one's used moreso in PBF games, though I thought I heard of an instance of this being used the boxed version of the game.

3 cards from each color. You either go through the entire thing, or only 12 of them, where you then discard the rest, and create a new one the same way. Keeps Destiny card counters in for a loop.

gixx wrote:
Thanks all for the reply.

ackmondual wrote:
If nothing else, I'd consider adding an additional 2 brown cards (for a total of 14) to each Destiny deck and call it a day. Add only +1, and when you only have 1 left, redo Destiny... with that 1 unknown card throwing a loop towards card counters (though it'll slow down the game if it's harder to see that Destiny only has 1 card left and needs a reshuffle)


I don't think that's a good idea. When discarding destiny before reshuffling, the players looking to the discards for setting them in their correct discard piles will know if treachery cards came from the deck or from an aggressive hidden cylon player.

It's not meant to keep things a secret.... it's only a quickie idea to so Treachery gets added into skill checks more, and thus, will play more enough of a role as that concern was voiced.
 
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Robert Stewart
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ackmondual wrote:
3 cards from each color. You either go through the entire thing, or only 12 of them, where you then discard the rest, and create a new one the same way. Keeps Destiny card counters in for a loop.


I prefer (and, I think, had only seen) the version where you start with 3 of each, and top up with 2 more of each whenever you get down to 6 - it reduces the variance over the course of the game (you can get at most one extra card of a given colour) and doesn't let card-counters see which cards destiny didn't play each time through - otherwise, when Destiny produces the fourth engineering card that cycle as a discard, the card counters still pounce...
 
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Robert
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Thanks for explaining complex destiny, but it is still unclear to me how this variant and PGs make certain agendas "undoable" as claimed by Pieter.
 
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Scott Smith
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Sorry, I'm a little late to the conversationwhistle

I remember seeing an idea a while back that suggested STARTING on New Caprica and then playing on to the Ionian Nebula.

I would guess that you would have to come up with a few other details to keep things somewhat in balance...

I do recognize the potential situation where the Admiral is a Cylon and jumps the fleet at first opportunity, potentially leaving behind up to five humans resulting in five executions and the accompanying lose of five morale... That would certainly put the humans in a hole, but possibly not insurmountable.

I just don't get to play enough to test out new things...


 
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Robert Stewart
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Scootergsp wrote:
Sorry, I'm a little late to the conversationwhistle

I remember seeing an idea a while back that suggested STARTING on New Caprica and then playing on to the Ionian Nebula.

I would guess that you would have to come up with a few other details to keep things somewhat in balance...

I do recognize the potential situation where the Admiral is a Cylon and jumps the fleet at first opportunity, potentially leaving behind up to five humans resulting in five executions and the accompanying lose of five morale... That would certainly put the humans in a hole, but possibly not insurmountable.

I just don't get to play enough to test out new things...


As I probably said before, New Caprica is a variant endgame - trying to start there (or play on from there) means trying to guess how much population you'll need for the rest of the game...

Rather than risking a Cylon admiral, it might be better to not deal out loyalty cards until after jumping from New Caprica.

I'd prefer either a succession game (play 3 games of Galactica, to Kobol, New Caprica and Ionian Nebula, changing the rules and swapping out revealed Cylons between games, with some degree of carry-over from game to game) or the version I suggested earlier in the thread - Ionian Nebula to Crossroads at 7, then New Caprica endgame.
 
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