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Subject: [YT] Stop and frisk recording: Listen to pigs being pigs rss

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lotus dweller
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Lets really fuck the cops over and insist that they do more stop and frisks.

The poor dumb fucks are being used as pawns to help get politicians re-elected.

Way to go Police Union. You're doing a really bad job of looking after your members.

Another instance where a strong union that prioritises it's member's working environment is needed.

 
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David desJardins
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The recording is interesting, although I think it's an overgeneralization to infer much about all or even most police officers. Plus you can't tell from the recording what he was doing with his body to provoke them, knowing that they were being recorded. (Not that this would excuse the worst of their behavior.)

But what I really want to know is, what is YT?
 
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Trey Stone
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DaviddesJ wrote:
The recording is interesting, although I think it's an overgeneralization to infer much about all or even most police officers. Plus you can't tell from the recording what he was doing with his body to provoke them, knowing that they were being recorded. (Not that this would excuse the worst of their behavior.)

But what I really want to know is, what is YT?


Cop haters never met a gross overgeneralization they didn't like.
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David desJardins
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tstone wrote:
Cop haters never met a gross overgeneralization they didn't like.


Apparently, neither did Trey Stone.
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lotus dweller
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DaviddesJ wrote:
The recording is interesting, although I think it's an overgeneralization to infer much about all or even most police officers. Plus you can't tell from the recording what he was doing with his body to provoke them, knowing that they were being recorded. (Not that this would excuse the worst of their behavior.)

...
The test for "generalisability" in this case is whether the officer threatening to break arms, punch faces and calling the citizen a mutt, was reported as violating procedure and protocol by his partner.

Was procedure followed by the officers in relation to each-other's on the job behavior?

If not it suggests systematic failures.
 
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David desJardins
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Pinook wrote:
Was procedure followed by the officers in relation to each-other's on the job behavior? If not it suggests systematic failures.


No, it suggests that the "worse" police officers tend to work together.
 
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lotus dweller
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DaviddesJ wrote:
Pinook wrote:
Was procedure followed by the officers in relation to each-other's on the job behavior? If not it suggests systematic failures.


No, it suggests that the "worse" police officers tend to work together.
Oh, gosh. That alone suggests systemic failures.
 
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David desJardins
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Pinook wrote:
Quote:
No, it suggests that the "worse" police officers tend to work together.
Oh, gosh. That alone suggests systemic failures.


I'm beginning to think that you just hopped out of an alien vessel that arrived on Earth and you really don't understand how these "humans" operate.
 
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lotus dweller
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DaviddesJ wrote:
Pinook wrote:
Quote:
No, it suggests that the "worse" police officers tend to work together.
Oh, gosh. That alone suggests systemic failures.


I'm beginning to think that you just hopped out of an alien vessel that arrived on Earth and you really don't understand how these "humans" operate.
I'm way in front of you there.
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Jasper
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And there I go, back for a new irony-meter.
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lotus dweller
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Venga2 wrote:
And there I go, back for a new irony-meter.
You'd be lost without your irony meter.

It's a long trip but it'll be worth it.
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Boaty McBoatface
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But jokes aside (though this is social commentary) there is a tendency for police to close ranks. The cop, whose actions led to the death of Mr Tomlinson, had a record of misconduct (and at one point had resigned to avid disciplinary action, yet was then allowed back in the force). The police have a tough job, which does not mean they should be allowed to act like thugs.
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Trey Stone
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DaviddesJ wrote:
tstone wrote:
Cop haters never met a gross overgeneralization they didn't like.


Apparently, neither did Trey Stone.


You're wrong. We find an instance of police brutality, the cop haters use it as an opportunity to bitch about the "pigs", implying they represent police/are all alike.

Am I saying that all who tend to put on this attitude are cop haters?

Yes. I stand by it.

And reject your characterization of it as an "equal and opposite" generalization.
 
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David desJardins
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tstone wrote:
And reject your characterization of it as an "equal and opposite" generalization.


I didn't say "equal", but obviously, "Cop haters never met a gross overgeneralization they didn't like," is itself a gross overgeneralization. In at least two different ways. I was assuming you wrote this in order to parody yourself.
 
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David desJardins
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tscook wrote:
I make no qualms about hating cops. They're at the front lines of the class war, and do it willingly.


Wait, why aren't the police victims of the capitalist conspiracy? They are forced into their violent, oppressive role by privatization of the means of production that leaves them no way to feed their families, but to break the skulls of those who valiantly stand against tyranny. It's all part of the dark conspiracy to turn working man against working man.
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lotus dweller
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DaviddesJ wrote:
tscook wrote:
I make no qualms about hating cops. They're at the front lines of the class war, and do it willingly.


Wait, why aren't the police victims of the capitalist conspiracy? They are forced into their violent, oppressive role by privatization of the means of production that leaves them no way to feed their families, but to break the skulls of those who valiantly stand against tyranny. It's all part of the dark conspiracy to turn working man against working man.
We can twist your words David into some approaching a humane reason based approach.

Cops have chosen to do a difficult job.
Their employers - ultimately us taxpayers - have a responsibility to provide a working environment that is safe and sane as practicable.
This involves work practices, work culture, training, renumeration and benefits, protocols and procedures, audits, chains of command and administration that maximize "safe and sane as practicable".

The current system grows from voter irresponsibility and has politicians being lauded for sacrificing "a practicable safe and sane workplace" to their political ends.
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David desJardins
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Pinook wrote:
The current system grows from voter irresponsibility and has politicians being lauded for sacrificing "a practicable safe and sane workplace" to their political ends.


It's a bit odd to see yourself putting yourself forward as an expert on both the state of policing in New York City, and the underlying political dynamics.

OK, more than a bit odd.
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lotus dweller
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DaviddesJ wrote:
Pinook wrote:
The current system grows from voter irresponsibility and has politicians being lauded for sacrificing "a practicable safe and sane workplace" to their political ends.


It's a bit odd to see yourself putting yourself forward as an expert on both the state of policing in New York City, and the underlying political dynamics.

OK, more than a bit odd.
Just police and western civilization.
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David desJardins
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If this is the gross overgeneralization thread, I guess it's entirely appropriate to start making gross overgeneralizations about policing and politics. They fit right in.
 
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All the threads are the same, just like all the music kids listen to these days.
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lotus dweller
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DaviddesJ wrote:
If this is the gross overgeneralization thread, I guess it's entirely appropriate to start making gross overgeneralizations about policing and politics. They fit right in.
Yes lets get specific.

Which bit of this do you disagree with?

"Cops have chosen to do a difficult job.
Their employers - ultimately us taxpayers - have a responsibility to provide a working environment that is safe and sane as practicable.
This involves work practices, work culture, training, renumeration and benefits, protocols and procedures, audits, chains of command and administration that maximize "safe and sane as practicable".

The current system grows from voter irresponsibility and has politicians being lauded for sacrificing "a practicable safe and sane workplace" to their political ends."
 
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David desJardins
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Pinook wrote:
Which bit of this do you disagree with?

The current system grows from voter irresponsibility and has politicians being lauded for sacrificing "a practicable safe and sane workplace" to their political ends."


It's a gross overgeneralization and an unwarranted insult.

Policing large cities with significant crime problems, racial and socioeconomic inequalities, strapped budgets, overlapping jurisdictional conflicts, and many other problems, is a lot harder than just waving a magic wand and declaring, if all of the voters were more responsible, like Pinook, these problems would disappear.

I doubt you know the first thing about NYC politics. So how do you know what the issues with the NYC police force arise from, or what would be different if the voters were more "responsible" there?
 
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lotus dweller
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DaviddesJ wrote:
Pinook wrote:
Which bit of this do you disagree with?

The current system grows from voter irresponsibility and has politicians being lauded for sacrificing "a practicable safe and sane workplace" to their political ends."


It's a gross overgeneralization and an unwarranted insult.

Policing large cities with significant crime problems, racial and socioeconomic inequalities, strapped budgets, overlapping jurisdictional conflicts, and many other problems, is a lot harder than just waving a magic wand and declaring, if all of the voters were more responsible, like Pinook, these problems would disappear.

I doubt you know the first thing about NYC politics. So how do you know what the issues with the NYC police force arise from, or what would be different if the voters were more "responsible" there?


Ahh, yes my claims that things will happen by magic.

Sorry David, never thought that I'd be in this position but I think dialoguing with you on this topic is reducing my IQ.

And I need what I've got.
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David desJardins
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Doesn't "The current system grows from voter irresponsibility" imply that the problem wouldn't exist if voters voted better?
 
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lotus dweller
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DaviddesJ wrote:
Doesn't "The current system grows from voter irresponsibility" imply that the problem wouldn't exist if voters voted better?
David. If it wasn't your name on the post I wouldn't bother replying. I'd be certain enough that the poster is drunk, drugged, just playing the fool, being "ironic", "post modern", that I'm about to hear that it's "Just - you know - like my opinion, man", has smeared themselves with feaces and is about to go and dance by the fire-bombed car, that sort of thing, that I'd leave you to it.

But you usually make sense to me so I'll play it straight.

There are many implications flowing from what I wrote. Some I made explicit.

Yes, one implication is that if voters started to take a lot more responsibility for their employees then police would get provided with better work environment.
Another implication is that I don't see this as likely to happen as I don't call for increased voter responsibility
Another, made explicit, is that the Police Union is failing in its responsibilities, to its members, to act to get "safe and sane".
Another is that its a feature of western democracies that politicians with power need to get themselves lauded or they won't get re-elected.
Another is that I don't see this as likely to change as I don't call for changes in how western democracies function.
Another implication is that police have an ethical right to demand a workplace that is, as far as practicable, safe and sane.


Another is that I see the idea that its our collective and individual responsibilities to provide as practicable a safe and sane workplace as sadly uncommon.
And that its by promoting this concept to all involved in society's decision making processes that we can have less exploited police who better stay inside social limits.
And that I'm supporting a narrative of social responsibility, both collective and individual, for police working conditions.

To see you collapse these implications so filtered that, "Doesn't "The current system grows from voter irresponsibility" imply that the problem wouldn't exist if voters voted better?", is all that is left, leaves my curiosity about your insights and approach wet and bedraggled.


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