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Subject: Victory conditions rss

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Chris Allan
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OK - so played this for the first time last night, and overall thought that it has the foundations of a fun game - like the balancing factors of helping vs hindering etc.

The one thing I had an issue with is the victory conditions though. For a game that asks questions of the players that require planning and strategy, to only know 1 or 2 of the up to 7 victory conditions that are in play at any time makes it feel a little random.

Perhaps this is because I needed to have a better understanding of what the complete set of victory conditions are - and should have read more into how different players were playing, but this seems a little infeasible, especially with the unknown game ending conditions also.

If one player spend up in a turn, and then immediately the game ended. If the victory condition for cash had been in play he would have scored poorly - however if he had just spent all of his cash on meeple, and the victory conditions for meeple had been in play, he would have scored high.

Without visibility to victory conditions, and with such varying goals and end conditions, this seems more luck than judgement.

We played 5 player, which I am sure exacerbates this issue.
 
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Simone Ferrari
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Hey, Chris.

crispy116 wrote:

The one thing I had an issue with is the victory conditions though. For a game that asks questions of the players that require planning and strategy, to only know 1 or 2 of the up to 7 victory conditions that are in play at any time makes it feel a little random.


Your numbers are wrong, sorry. If you play a 5 player game you have 1 Trend Card and 1 Secret objective for each player.
Every player knows his Objective card and the Trend card so you know 2 objectives out of 6. If you play with the optional rule of 2 Trend Cards you know 3 objectives of 7.

If you have the Separatist card you should try to increase the rebellion.
If you have any other Secret Objective card, your aim is to get something of all the objectives, so you can compete at least for the 3rd place, focusing on your own card. If you are not the Pacifist try to keep the rebellion going, because you don't want a Pacifist gets that 3 points for a small price.
 
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Itai Perez
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Well, indeed you need to know the 8 possible ways to gain VP (aside from the separatist and the pacifist). Then if you see someone suspiciously getting some of those, try to get some too. Someone explores a lot, and doesn't spend his exploration tokens ? Explore too. Someone buys a lot of characters, get some. What you need to avoid at all costs is to not score at all in one of the victory conditions. So do not take any risks. Also if you got the opportunity, build a wonder. They are expensive but having some extra VP can often mean victory in games which are often very close in points.

It can also be helpful to get a look on the end of game conditions, and the victory points conditions they are linked to. If a possible end of game condition is valid and nobody ended the game it means the associated victory condition isn't in play too.

So it is not so much luck you need but deduction...
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Chris Boelinger
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I think the control part in Archipelago is a lot higher than you think.
Of course not in your first games. This game has a very long learning curve and you always learn new things from your previous games.

In France we kinda call the Detective part, the fact that you are trying to guess your opponent's objectives. Well you are becoming a better Detective with each game, and I'm still improving in that part even though I have played so many games. And I love that ! because not only the games endless but my learning of it, my experience and performances, the strategies and possibilities also seems endless...
So I understand your restoration on this part, but it gets better and better with time.
Nowadays during each game I play I try to make a clear guess of each player's objectives, and around two third of the game length, I can guess clearly an average of 80% of the other player's objectives. Sometimes 100%, sometimes a little less. But I always guess at least half the objectives around.
What's funny is that at the beginning you are totally in the dark concerning your opponents goals, but the more the game advance and the more everything reveals itself to you if you are aware and pay attention to the actions, acting and sayings of your fellows around the table. Like an investigation by a detective that slowly but surely takes shape and gives its final conclusion during the last quarter of the game.
The longer the game, the easier it is also to guess your opponents objectives.
It is mOre difficult to guess in a short game than in a long game. The stats I've given above concerning my own experience are mostly for short games.

 
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