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Subject: Can someone please explain Nisei MK II? rss

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/|\ Roland /|\
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The card text says:

Agenda:Initiative
Place 1 agenda counter on Misei MK II when you score it.

Hosted Agenda Counter: End the Run



When you score an agenda, you remove the Advancement counters, and then it goes into your scoring pile, thus how do you put an agenda counter on it??

Also, is the bottom text describing the pay action talking about spending advancement counters (counters that are used to advance the agenda to completion) to end runs, or is it talkinga about the special Agenda counters that only get placed when scoring it?? Wait wha??

And if so, can it only End runs against the server containing the agenda. or any other server?

To me, this is most confusing card in the game for some reason. surprise
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ath3ist wrote:
The card text says:

Agenda:Initiative
Place 1 agenda counter on Misei MK II when you score it.

Hosted Agenda Counter: End the Run



When you score an agenda, you remove the Advancement counters, and then it goes into your scoring pile, thus how do you put an agenda counter on it??

Also, is the bottom text describing the pay action talking about spending advancement counters (counters that are used to advance the agenda to completion) to end runs, or is it talkinga about the special Agenda counters that only get placed when scoring it?? Wait wha??

And if so, can it only End runs against the server containing the agenda. or any other server?

To me, this is most confusing card in the game for some reason. surprise


You quoted it yourself.

Hosted AGENDA COUNTER, not ADVANCEMENT COUNTER

In short:
Agenda never give their bonus text while being advanced.
If you score Niesi Mk II, you get a one-time ability to end ANY future Run.
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David Sleaze
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When you score it it gets a counter. (Called Agenda Counter)

You can remove it while it is in your scoring area at any time to end a run.

Nothing to complicated here as far as i can see...
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Andrew Lieffring
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Nisei doesn't do anything before you score it except sit there for the runner to steal.

After you score Nisei, you place an Agenda Counter (not an Advancement Token) on the card. One of the blue/red tokens works nicely.

At any point in the future, you can spend this counter to end a run. After you do that the one time Nisei has no more tricks, it's just worth points.
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Tom M.
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Agenda counters are not the same as advancement counters. When scored, the card gains one counter that can be used one time to end any run.

EDIT: Triple ninja!
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A bit of speculation...

Why call the hosted counter an 'Agenda' counter and not a 'Nisei Mk II' counter or a 'Psychic Pre-crime' counter?

Imagine other Agenda which also place an 'Agenda' counter on themselves when they score.

Now imagine an Upgrade that says "Trash: Add an Agenda Counter to an Agenda currently being scored from this Server."

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Psychic Streaming
Jinteki (null influence)
Agenda 2/1
When you score Psychic Streaming, place 1 agenda counter on an agenda in your scored agenda area.
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Lawcomic
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It might be easier if they just said place a counter instead of giving it a special name. That way people aren't confused.
 
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Lawcomic wrote:
It might be easier if they just said place a counter instead of giving it a special name. That way people aren't confused.


Every counter is named so other effects can key off of the name.

Example: Virus Counters.
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Lawcomic
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byronczimmer wrote:

Every counter is named so other effects can key off of the name.

Example: Virus Counters.


Virus counters are different. They can be on multiple cards.

For now, I am not aware of cards that affect other types of counters.

In any case, it should be a uniform name (Agenda counters is fine), unless the plan is to have multiple cards with different counter name types. Your post above does a good job of explaining this, so I see your point.

 
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/|\ Roland /|\
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OK thanks all for the replies. I think my confusion stemmed from the fact that I envision the Score pile as a literal pile of cards, thus how could one card in a stack of cards hold a counter on it, much less you remember it being buried in the stack for later use. I guess in reality, it should sit off to the side of the stack as a reminder.

Thanks!
 
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Brad Miller
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Lawcomic wrote:
byronczimmer wrote:

Every counter is named so other effects can key off of the name.

Example: Virus Counters.


Virus counters are different. They can be on multiple cards.

For now, I am not aware of cards that affect other types of counters.

In any case, it should be a uniform name (Agenda counters is fine), unless the plan is to have multiple cards with different counter name types. Your post above does a good job of explaining this, so I see your point.



Astroscript Pilot Program also hosts an Agenda Counter.
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Now envision an Event in the Runner's deck:

Dogs and Cats Living Together: Discard all Hosted Agenda Tokens

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Jeremy Owens
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ath3ist wrote:
OK thanks all for the replies. I think my confusion stemmed from the fact that I envision the Score pile as a literal pile of cards, thus how could one card in a stack of cards hold a counter on it, much less you remember it being buried in the stack for later use. I guess in reality, it should sit off to the side of the stack as a reminder.

Thanks!


Something to keep in mind that any agenda with an ability only has that ability active once the agenda is scored. Private Security force can only be used once the agenda has been scored, same with Nisei and Astroscript.
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/|\ Roland /|\
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Hmmm I guess you're right as they are never rezzed like Assets are, thus they could only take affect as they are scored or after. Good point!
 
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byronczimmer wrote:
Lawcomic wrote:
It might be easier if they just said place a counter instead of giving it a special name. That way people aren't confused.


Every counter is named so other effects can key off of the name.

Example: Virus Counters.


As soon as I saw this the thought occurred to me - if you call it an agenda counter the natural conclusion would be that it is worth 1 agenda point (I know it isn't, but it makes you think...Archer devil).

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Andy Mills
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byronczimmer wrote:
Now envision an Event in the Runner's deck:

Dogs and Cats Living Together: Discard all Hosted Agenda Tokens


Sounds like mass hysteria to me!
 
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Joseph Vales
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It is definitely a confusing card since "hosted agenda counter" can mistaken as an "agenda counter".

tbh, I think that in the spirit of trying to sound different and stylized, the card succeeded in just confusing the player.

It would have been better if they said, "place a counter on this card after it's scored", at any time, you can discard this counter to end a run"
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advancement tokens are placed when you advance

an agenda counters is placed when it is scored

Is it really that hard because they both start with the letter 'a'?
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byronczimmer wrote:
advancement tokens are placed when you advance

an agenda counters is placed when it is scored

Is it really that hard because they both start with the letter 'a'?

If you ignore the word 'hosted' as part of the pay cost, then apparently yes.
 
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David Sleaze
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THere are no Agenda Counters other than hosted ones.. the things you put on it are Advancement Tokens NOT Agenda Tokens!!
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byronczimmer wrote:
advancement tokens are placed when you advance

an agenda counters is placed when it is scored

Is it really that hard because they both start with the letter 'a'?


I've worked in tech support, and I currently teach at a university, and if I've learned anything from my customers or students, it's this: People don't read.
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manydills wrote:
byronczimmer wrote:
advancement tokens are placed when you advance

an agenda counters is placed when it is scored

Is it really that hard because they both start with the letter 'a'?


I've worked in tech support, and I currently teach at a university, and if I've learned anything from my customers or students, it's this: People don't read.


Then it wouldn't matter what text was on the card.
 
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Andy Mills
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I in no way encourage not reading. I was saying that a lot of peoples' thought processes are just "oh, a word longer than 5 letters starting with 'a'...must be the same word I saw mentioned in the rulebook."

I'm on your side - I think avoiding a careful reading of all relevant text is just laziness.
 
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Clayton Capra
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Wow so that hosted agenda counter taunts the runner, they have
to make a run to get rid of it but because it can be used at any time
the corporation can save it until after the runner spends money to get
by some ice. (nasty)
 
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