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Subject: How would you feel if quantities were limited to 1 core set rss

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Ian Toltz
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Ok, obviously this would piss a lot of people off who have already bought more than one core set.

But let's say hypothetically, right from the beginning (even before you'd had a chance to place pre-orders), FFG released the rules and it said you couldn't have more copies of a card in a deck than came in the core set (only applies to core set cards).

So for example, only one copy of Toolbox or Corporate Troubleshooter per deck.

Do you think that would be a positive or a negative change?

Poll
Would it be a good thing or a bad thing if cards had been restricted in quantity to 1 core set?
It would be a good thing
It would be a good thing, but changes may need to be made to compensate
It would be a bad thing; you should be allowed 3x of any card
Obligatory Other
      156 answers
Poll created by Asmor
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I choose other.

As an other chooser, I will now explain that it would neither be here nor there if they decided to put that in the rules. It's not that big of a deal. The rules are what they are, and if they had been different, I would have been just as happy playing the game with the limit as I am without the limit. I only have one core set, see, so it doesn't matter. Online, it still doesn't matter because I can put 3x in my decks anyway. Also, I believe that decks made from one core set are as good or better than 3x constructed decks due to the diversity that it forces.
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As it stands right now, the standard CCG advantage is given to players who invest more in the game, i.e., buy more standard core sets. In my opinion, the core set should have come with three copies of each card (for deckbuilding purposes) and then a guide as to how to construct "standard" decks. Given that this was not the case, restricting deck construction to the number of copies supplied in one Core Set would also solve that problem.

(No, I don't expect this opinion to be popular, even after the fact.)
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ryudoowaru wrote:
As it stands right now, the standard CCG advantage is given to players who invest more in the game, i.e., buy more standard core sets. In my opinion, the core set should have come with three copies of each card (for deckbuilding purposes) and then a guide as to how to construct "standard" decks. Given that this was not the case, restricting deck construction to the number of copies supplied in one Core Set would also solve that problem.

(No, I don't expect this opinion to be popular, even after the fact.)


It's an LCG and buying more cards will give people an advantage, whether it's a core set or a data pack. I will be buying data packs. I'm not buying a second core set, unless someone else in my house decides to play, too. At that point, they'll have their own set and I'll have my own set and we'll still be limited to single-core decks.
 
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Wow. The poll is overwhelmingly in favor of it being a bad thing so far.

I'm curious to hear why people think that. Would someone care to add in why they think the game is better off allowing 3x of all cards without restriction, as opposed to limiting it as I described?

I mean, from a competitive standpoint, everyone's on equal footing, and I don't really see what the concern could be.
 
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Asmor wrote:
Wow. The poll is overwhelmingly in favor of it being a bad thing so far.

I'm curious to hear why people think that. Would someone care to add in why they think the game is better off allowing 3x of all cards without restriction, as opposed to limiting it as I described?

I mean, from a competitive standpoint, everyone's on equal footing, and I don't really see what the concern could be.


Why needlessly restrict deck building options? 3 core sets from coolstuff is still only 3/5ths the cost of a single booster box of the newest magic set. It isn't that much money and doesn't provide enough of an advantage to need a whole special set of deck building rules for it.
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Asmor wrote:

I'm curious to hear why people think that. Would someone care to add in why they think the game is better off allowing 3x of all cards without restriction, as opposed to limiting it as I described?

I mean, from a competitive standpoint, everyone's on equal footing, and I don't really see what the concern could be.


Because you're limiting deck-building? And this limitation is not due to balance or fun concerns, it's simply based on how FFG decided to package their product.

I'm 95% sure I will not buy a second core set. I intend to play Netrunner in a casual fashion - but, if I was going to play Netrunner regularly in a competitive fashion - paying an extra $25 for a second core set is no big deal.

Especially since, as someone else noted, a player who buys all the expansions will have more options (and thus, likely an advantage) over a player who only buys a few.

I voted Other, since I am mostly ambivalent, but I do not think there is a sufficiently compelling reason to implement this ruling.
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Darksbane wrote:
Asmor wrote:
Wow. The poll is overwhelmingly in favor of it being a bad thing so far.

I'm curious to hear why people think that. Would someone care to add in why they think the game is better off allowing 3x of all cards without restriction, as opposed to limiting it as I described?

I mean, from a competitive standpoint, everyone's on equal footing, and I don't really see what the concern could be.


Why needlessly restrict deck building options? 3 core sets from coolstuff is still only 3/5ths the cost of a single booster box of the newest magic set. It isn't that much money and doesn't provide enough of an advantage to need a whole special set of deck building rules for it.


The first core you buy isn't that much money. The second core you buy is significantly more money per needed card. The third core is ridiculously expensive per card.

Yes, you might find other uses for the extra cards. But I don't see that as actually giving me utility, only convenience.
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Wait. We're allowed to buy more than one core set now?
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Martin Presley
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Decreasing options in deckbuilding, not for any balance or depth reason, but PURELY for (minor) financial reasons is pretty silly. Especially this early in the game's life, we need all the variety and options we can get. I really wish FFG had either packaged the remainder of cards needed for a complete set into the core set, or at least into a mini expansion, but them's just the breaks.
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Lawcomic wrote:
Wait. We're allowed to buy more than one core set now?


No, we're just opining over if we could.
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I get that people like to theorize on the what ifs and the whys of the core sets' construction, but I fail to understand why we are continuing to discuss this point.

- The rules for a CCG/LCG need to be simple to enforce to ensure that players are all on the same page whether they play casually or in competition. The base game was built around a 3 card limit so it should remain that way through all the expansions.

- Does it make sense from the player's point-of-view to release sets with less than 3 copies of each card? No

- Does it make sense from a company's point-of-view to release sets with less than 3 copies of each card? Yes
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Can´t we just stop this shit discussions? It stupid ppl! JUST very very stupid and boring.

And it would be a VERY VERY bad thing because it would limit deckbuilding with the coreset so much that you can´t even speak of building.
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IamSalvation wrote:
Can´t we just stop this shit discussions? It stupid ppl! JUST very very stupid and boring.

And it would be a VERY VERY bad thing because it would limit deckbuilding with the coreset so much that you can´t even speak of building.


Actually, I've found that influence limits my deck building a lot more than the 1 core set limit.
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IamSalvation wrote:

And it would be a VERY VERY bad thing because it would limit deckbuilding with the coreset so much that you can´t even speak of building.


Hyperbole, plenty of people (myself included) *build decks* using only 1 Core Set. Sometimes I am sad that I can't include 3x Wyldside or 2x Grimoire, but I still build decks that are different (and functionally stronger) than the default decks.

I don't think, in the long run (perhaps even as early as the first Data Pack) there will be a distinction between those who have 1x Core and those who have 3x Core as far as success in games goes - the only time it really matters is now. I voted other because I don't think it largely matters looking ahead.
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I think there will, if only because NBN only got 2 copies of their agendas. It would be nice to play with 3 copies of my agendas...
 
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Asmor wrote:
I'm curious to hear why people think that. Would someone care to add in why they think the game is better off allowing 3x of all cards without restriction, as opposed to limiting it as I described?


I agree with Jythier's point about influence, but I think a 1-core restriction places limits on creativity in deck design. This is already constrained by the three card limit, so making the choice of cards you can legally include in a deck even smaller would leave you with a very small range of design decisions while there are no data packs available. We would see a lot of very similar decks being played, which IMO would not be good for the game.

As the game matures, given that the data packs will include cards in threes, a 1-core restriction would also start to look more and more artificial. Again, though, Candi's comment about the long run is likely to prove true, particularly if we get more "tutor" cards, but for the moment I still think I'll need more than one Icecarver .

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Candi wrote:
IamSalvation wrote:

And it would be a VERY VERY bad thing because it would limit deckbuilding with the coreset so much that you can´t even speak of building.


Hyperbole, plenty of people (myself included) *build decks* using only 1 Core Set. Sometimes I am sad that I can't include 3x Wyldside or 2x Grimoire, but I still build decks that are different (and functionally stronger) than the default decks.

I don't think, in the long run (perhaps even as early as the first Data Pack) there will be a distinction between those who have 1x Core and those who have 3x Core as far as success in games goes - the only time it really matters is now. I voted other because I don't think it largely matters looking ahead.


It won't make a big difference when the packs start coming out. Even now the difference isn't huge. However, putting an artificial exception on just the Core Set cards doesn't make sense. there is no reason to limit the decks just because some people don't want to buy a second/third core set. Is there an advantage to extra core sets, sure. does it mean that you will win every game if you buy two or three of them, no it doesn't.

If we're going to have them limit to cards from one core set, then why not limit deckbuilding to no data packs as well? Not everyone buys data packs, the ones who do will have an advantage over those who don't.
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Kaic wrote:
Candi wrote:
IamSalvation wrote:

And it would be a VERY VERY bad thing because it would limit deckbuilding with the coreset so much that you can´t even speak of building.


Hyperbole, plenty of people (myself included) *build decks* using only 1 Core Set. Sometimes I am sad that I can't include 3x Wyldside or 2x Grimoire, but I still build decks that are different (and functionally stronger) than the default decks.

I don't think, in the long run (perhaps even as early as the first Data Pack) there will be a distinction between those who have 1x Core and those who have 3x Core as far as success in games goes - the only time it really matters is now. I voted other because I don't think it largely matters looking ahead.


It won't make a big difference when the packs start coming out. Even now the difference isn't huge. However, putting an artificial exception on just the Core Set cards doesn't make sense. there is no reason to limit the decks just because some people don't want to buy a second/third core set. Is there an advantage to extra core sets, sure. does it mean that you will win every game if you buy two or three of them, no it doesn't.

If we're going to have them limit to cards from one core set, then why not limit deckbuilding to no data packs as well? Not everyone buys data packs, the ones who do will have an advantage over those who don't.


Agreed. No more data pack usage for building decks.
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Asmor wrote:
Wow. The poll is overwhelmingly in favor of it being a bad thing so far.

I'm curious to hear why people think that. Would someone care to add in why they think the game is better off allowing 3x of all cards without restriction, as opposed to limiting it as I described?

I mean, from a competitive standpoint, everyone's on equal footing, and I don't really see what the concern could be.


I for one enjoy the deckbuilding aspect of the game almost as much as playing it.

When you limit everyone to less cards (especially when only a base set is available) you limit the number of strategies and angles of attack that each build is capable of. Most decks can be built with 1 base set - I just like the options of building with more. Does that give me a significant advantage? Not really. Is there some small advantage? Perhaps, but I don't know if it is worth altering deckbuilding rules for everyone.

If you're worried about trying to compete with people with multiple base sets then just build the decks you want with proxies. If a tournament pops up I'm sure there are people that will allow you to borrow the 1-2 cards you need.

Don't step all over my deck building options just because you don't want to buy a second/third set. Options are a good thing!
 
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Jythier wrote:
IamSalvation wrote:
Can´t we just stop this shit discussions? It stupid ppl! JUST very very stupid and boring.

And it would be a VERY VERY bad thing because it would limit deckbuilding with the coreset so much that you can´t even speak of building.


Actually, I've found that influence limits my deck building a lot more than the 1 core set limit.


This statement only holds water because the card pool is so small. Influence is the limiting factor in deckbuilding for A:Nr the same way colored mana is for Magic:TG.

Imagine playing Magic where the only mana is colorless mana and my point should be clear. Influence is there to force you to make choices. Without it every single deck will be distilled down to the best efficient/most powerful cards. Faction choice becomes all but irrelevant.
 
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Stan Adecla
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Jythier wrote:
I think there will, if only because NBN only got 2 copies of their agendas. It would be nice to play with 3 copies of my agendas...


Lemme tell you, 3x AstroScript is by far the best thing. It's the one agenda I always love drawing.
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To all the people complaining that not being able to use 3x of any card would limit deck building options...

You realize that the vast majority of people who buy Android: Netrunner are only ever going to buy the one core box?

And of those who intend to buy expansions, the majority of them only have one core set right now?

So, either the claim is inaccurate and it's not much of a limit on deckbuilding options, or you're claiming that the core set, which is sold as a game where you can build a variety of decks right out of the one box, is an inferior experience.

So is the claim inaccurate, or did FFG put out a bad product?

Personally, I only own the one set, and while there are cards I wish I had more of, the lack of 2x or 3x of any particular card hasn't affected my decision to pursue any particular strategies. So that leads me to believe that this claim is inaccurate.

I would argue that limit of cards in a single core set doesn't affect what strategies can be played, but rather it affects how optimally decks may be built. And optimization isn't terribly interesting (in fact, in my mind optimization is antithetical to encouraging variety).

In other words, I feel that regardless of whether you have 3 of every card or just one core set right now, you have access to the same strategies and the same potential decks.
 
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Quote:
In other words, I feel that regardless of whether you have 3 of every card or just one core set right now, you have access to the same strategies and the same potential decks.


Then what is the point of this poll that you made and all the other rage about multiple core sets?
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FinalPhalanx wrote:
Quote:
In other words, I feel that regardless of whether you have 3 of every card or just one core set right now, you have access to the same strategies and the same potential decks.


Then what is the point of this poll that you made and all the other rage about multiple core sets?


I don't know. I may end up with another core set someday because I think the agendas are important enough that I want to have 3x of them. Or maybe I'll just switch corps. Either way, when I've gotten more agendas I will be able to run what I want, most likely.
 
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