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Subject: Do you Consider X-Wing to be unbalanced? Please Vote Inside! rss

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Poll
Do you consider X-Wing to be unbalanced?
Yes! It is difficult for the Rebels to win.
Yes! It is difficult for the Empire to Win.
No! Game Balance seems fine to me.
      270 answers
Poll created by wylde_karde


Let's see what the prevailing opinion is. I wanted to get a more 'honest' answer for those that didn't feel comfortable posting their opinion in a "hot topic"thread.

Argument to proceed below.

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Scott Egan
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You are asking a bunch of players that likely have under 10, and that's aiming high, games under their belt to weigh in on game balance? Players that likely have only played one side and done so with an overall imperfect understanding of the rules?

I think that is going to lead to unbacked conclusions. More over what point level are we basing balance on? With asteroids or without? Scenarios? Etc.

I think that you are not going to get anything worth while from this poll.
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Whatever your awesome experience is.

No boundaries. If you have played it 5 times I want to hear from you. If you have played it 20 times I'd like to hear from you.

If you are the person who won the GenCon tournament I'd like to hear from you.

Remember it's just a game and this is just a poll.

Have fun!

Edit: Almost forgot...Welcome to BGG new user. Have some geekgold.
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Greg Lott
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ScottieATF wrote:
You are asking a bunch of players that likely have under 10, and that's aiming high, games under their belt to weigh in on game balance? Players that likely have only played one side and done so with an overall imperfect understanding of the rules?

I think that is going to lead to unbacked conclusions. More over what point level are we basing balance on? With asteroids or without? Scenarios? Etc.

I think that you are not going to get anything worth while from this poll.


I think this poll is in response to this thread.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/10272285#10272285

The poll at least holds more value than that thread. It's amazing how opinionated people can be after 2 games. And oh man, do they like to hear/see themselves talk! It's freaking thesis day in there.
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Read the rulebook, plan for all contingencies, and…read the rulebook again.
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Suggest adding to the poll: "Haven't played enough games to know one way or they other yet!"
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BradyLS wrote:
Suggest adding to the poll: "Haven't played enough games to know one way or they other yet!"


I thought about adding that one too but then I thought I'd have to add these

- No! Played too many games to let a noob push me around


- Unbalanced? Yes! My posts are warped and FFG won't sell me new ones

And of course the tried and true:

- Yes! Busen Memo
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Eric B.
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ferris1971 wrote:


I think this poll is in response to this thread.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/10272285#10272285

The poll at least holds more value than that thread. It's amazing how opinionated people can be after 2 games. And oh man, do they like to hear/see themselves talk! It's freaking thesis day in there.


Of course, all the people voting "No, it's balanced" are just as opinionated as the people saying it's not.

Very, very few of us have any meaningful, significant sense of whether or not the game is balanced (balanced in general and/or balanced at the 100pt competitive tournament level). The only non-opinionated position at this point is to wait and see what about a year of tournament results shows. Only when we have a huge pool of data of people playing the most competitive squads they can think of in standardized settings against a variety of components will we know anything.

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ferris1971 wrote:
ScottieATF wrote:
You are asking a bunch of players that likely have under 10, and that's aiming high, games under their belt to weigh in on game balance? Players that likely have only played one side and done so with an overall imperfect understanding of the rules?

I think that is going to lead to unbacked conclusions. More over what point level are we basing balance on? With asteroids or without? Scenarios? Etc.

I think that you are not going to get anything worth while from this poll.


I think this poll is in response to this thread.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/10272285#10272285

The poll at least holds more value than that thread. It's amazing how opinionated people can be after 2 games. And oh man, do they like to hear/see themselves talk! It's freaking thesis day in there.


It was in response to that thread. On my way to work I stumbled across that thread. I was a little excited to see some discussion about the topic. Of course it took a little less than a couple of hours for it to go downhill.

Opinions are fine...even people with limited experience. Sometimes news eyes can spot what old eyes can't.

What really gets to me is the childish discussion / posts. That came from far too many people in that thread. It was disappointing.
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Scott Egan
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RogueThirteen wrote:
ferris1971 wrote:


I think this poll is in response to this thread.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/10272285#10272285

The poll at least holds more value than that thread. It's amazing how opinionated people can be after 2 games. And oh man, do they like to hear/see themselves talk! It's freaking thesis day in there.


Of course, all the people voting "No, it's balanced" are just as opinionated as the people saying it's not.

Very, very few of us have any meaningful, significant sense of whether or not the game is balanced (balanced in general and/or balanced at the 100pt competitive tournament level). The only non-opinionated position at this point is to wait and see what about a year of tournament results shows. Only when we have a huge pool of data of people playing the most competitive squads they can think of in standardized settings against a variety of components will we know anything.



Which is exactly why this poll is preemptive.
 
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BradyLS wrote:
Suggest adding to the poll: "Haven't played enough games to know one way or they other yet!"


and of course an option for "Haven't played a single game yet, but I know it isn't balanced fairly for X or Y"
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ScottieATF wrote:
RogueThirteen wrote:
ferris1971 wrote:


I think this poll is in response to this thread.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/10272285#10272285

The poll at least holds more value than that thread. It's amazing how opinionated people can be after 2 games. And oh man, do they like to hear/see themselves talk! It's freaking thesis day in there.


Of course, all the people voting "No, it's balanced" are just as opinionated as the people saying it's not.

Very, very few of us have any meaningful, significant sense of whether or not the game is balanced (balanced in general and/or balanced at the 100pt competitive tournament level). The only non-opinionated position at this point is to wait and see what about a year of tournament results shows. Only when we have a huge pool of data of people playing the most competitive squads they can think of in standardized settings against a variety of components will we know anything.



Which is exactly why this poll is preemptive.


Glad to see you have an opinion. BGG is all about sharing. I've got to say that you must really love X-wing. In your 20 days since signing up to BGG it's the only place you've posted. That's Awesome! I'm kind of a Star Wars Fanboy too!

Did X-wing bring you to BGG? I generally find this to be such an excellent resource for gamey goodness. I'm sure the game companies dislike it though. It's an organized central location for opinions that they may not like and that they have no control over. I'm really not sure what kind of recourse a company like FFG could do about things over here...but I digress.

If you have any questions about how things work or function on BGG shoot me an email. Most of the time the mood is pretty lite, but once in a while you come across a grumpy group or touchy topic.

Remember folks it's just a game (with an awesome theme!) and just a poll.
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Kurt Weihs
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I routinely play Empire against the same opponent. I will typically win one or two games then lose a like number. We've probably played 10-15 games so far. I do seem to fare poorly on asteroid boards since I have lost more on those, but with so few games this could easily be a slight statistical abnormality rather than a trend.
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I'd love to vote on this poll, but I don't have an opinion yet so my voice can't be heard... :,-(
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adorablerocket wrote:
I'd love to vote on this poll, but I don't have an opinion yet so my voice can't be heard... :,-(


Ahh...just make one up. I think that's what alot of people around here do.

On a more serious note, apparently one cannot edit polls. Once you click save that's it.
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Stephen Foulk
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wylde_karde wrote:
Ahh...just make one up. I think that's what alot of people around here do.


Not getting the results you were expecting then?
 
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Jeremy Steward
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I'm definitely of the camp that thinks Empire could be OP, but really not sure at this point. I have had wins from both sides.
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John Steinbach
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I think one's perception of Rebel suckitude is inversely proportional to how frequently one exploits Biggs/R2-D2 or R2-F2. I call it "The Darklighter Postulate."

Because nothing says "fun" to an Imperial player like being forced to shoot at an X-Wing with three or four defense dice (up to five through an asteroid) while Wedge and Luke barbecue your TIEs
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foulksy wrote:
wylde_karde wrote:
Ahh...just make one up. I think that's what alot of people around here do.


Not getting the results you were expecting then?


I had no expectations for this poll. I simply wanted a place for people to voice their opinion either way without getting grumped on.

I think you are too geared up for a fight from that other thread. Go have a pint friend. It's just a game and just a poll.

You might have read that last part before.

Edit: Taking another look I could swear that your smiley face wasn't there before. Goodness, maybe I need a pint!
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The game balance seems fine to me (which is of course what I voted) but I have almost exclusively played against my kids.

You can make challenges for yourself, such as trying to win with a 65 point game taking only 2 Y-wings. I have tried that twice against my kids and lost both times. The first was against a TIE mini swarm of 5 TIES. The second was against 2 TIE advanced, which came out closer. I managed to kill Darth and damage Marek before being destroyed.

Glad to see that the majority of voters find it balanced. That's a good sign. Things could change of course with the next wave. But I think balance will continue to depend on making smart squad building choices.
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Dave Weiss
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I think the poll needs 2 more levels.

Unbalanced for Rebels
Slightly unbalanced for Rebels
Balanced
Slightly unbalanced for Empire
Unbalanced for Rebels

Maybe even a majorly unbalanced level for each.

I say it's slightly unbalanced for Empire.

Under certain Imp builds they have a slight advantage, but that can be overcome with skill or luck. And these builds are only a few out of MANY MANY builds.
 
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wylde_karde wrote:
ferris1971 wrote:
ScottieATF wrote:
You are asking a bunch of players that likely have under 10, and that's aiming high, games under their belt to weigh in on game balance? Players that likely have only played one side and done so with an overall imperfect understanding of the rules?

I think that is going to lead to unbacked conclusions. More over what point level are we basing balance on? With asteroids or without? Scenarios? Etc.

I think that you are not going to get anything worth while from this poll.


I think this poll is in response to this thread.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/10272285#10272285

The poll at least holds more value than that thread. It's amazing how opinionated people can be after 2 games. And oh man, do they like to hear/see themselves talk! It's freaking thesis day in there.


It was in response to that thread. On my way to work I stumbled across that thread. I was a little excited to see some discussion about the topic. Of course it took a little less than a couple of hours for it to go downhill.

Opinions are fine...even people with limited experience. Sometimes news eyes can spot what old eyes can't.

What really gets to me is the childish discussion / posts. That came from far too many people in that thread. It was disappointing.


Agreed. I unsubscribed from it.
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Chris Ballinger
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Hang on folks hard right turn! (but still on topic)

First, a confession, I am no grognard. I am not even sure if I spelled it right! I enjoy "lite" strategic and/or tactical games, and a few years ago a system was introduced that fit my gaming taste to a "T". You may have heard of it. . ."The Commands and Colors" system, first introduced in the original "Battle Cry".

"Wait just a minute" you say, "We're talking about X-Wing here! Have you gone wonky?"

Well I submit to you that we are not talking about a game, we are talking about balance, and to me (AMATUER GAMER) that comes down to mechanics, and in particular any randomizing element (dice roll, card draw, etc.). In my opinion (that's right folks, this is all SUBJECTIVE), randomizing mechanics make balance a constantly moving target.

Why bring up Commands and Colors? Because it has both card draws and dice rolls that will affect the outcomes of engagements, and in the case of Battle Cry, scenarios were designed to mimic history, not level the gameboard playing field, as such one player may have a decided numerical advantage in units (sound familiar?)

"ENOUGH" you say, "What's your point?" Well perhaps an example. . .

I, a gamer who is nowhere close to as good as I think I am, challenge BradyLS, a gamer whose been around the block, uhm, gameboard a few times, to a few games of Battle Cry. I, of course take the Union, they have more units, cards and favorable terrain. Brady smiles patiently, takes his units and cards, and the battle begins. I move around the board, confident I have every advantage, and I LOSE! "INCONCEIVABLE!" I shout. "We shall play again.", I say, and we do, and I lose, again, and again, and again. Oh sure, every once in a while I do win, maybe even easily, but on the whole I get beaten like an old rug.

"Why, this game is unbalanced", I mummer to myself, but wait, weren't all the numbers in my favor? How is this so? Brady smiles again, and begins to show me where my gameplay nullified my advantage, and if I listen to his experience, and learn from my mistakes, I just might find that it's my turn to start winning a few.

Moral? (Also known as my opinion) "Balance" isn't a word I dwell upon in games like this. Because the PLAYER and their ABILITIES will always have a greater effect than any random unknown or superiority in forces ever will.

Don't beleive me? Google "Battle of Midway" for a real life example.

P.S. I want to thank BradyLS in advance fo my using him in my example. I have a great deal of respect for both his experience and the way he conducts himself on these boards. I hope my taking liberties with his persona does not offend.

EDITED: For spelling
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CBallinger wrote:
Hang on folks hard right turn! (but still on topic)

First, a confession, I am no grognard. I am not even sure if I spelled it right! I enjoy "lite" strategic and/or tactical games, and a few years ago a system was introduced that fit my gaming taste to a "T". You may have heard of it. . ."The Commands and Colors" system, first introduced in the original "Battle Cry".

"Wait just a minute" you say, "We're talking about X-Wing here! Have you gone wonky?"

Well I submit to you that we are not talking about a game, we are talking about balance, and to me (AMATUER GAMER) that comes down to mechanics, and in particular any randomizing element (dice roll, card draw, etc.). In my opinion (that's right folks, this is all SUBJECTIVE), randomizing mechanics make balance a constantly moving target.

Why bring up Commands and Colors? Because it has both card draws and dice rolls that will affect the outcomes of engagements, and in the case of Battle Cry, scenarios were designed to mimic history, not level the gameboard playing field, as such one player may have a decided numerical advantage in units (sound familiar?)

"ENOUGH" you say, "What's your point?" Well perhaps an example. . .

I, a gamer who is nowhere close to as good as I think I am, challenge BradyLS, a gamer whose been around the block, uhm, gameboard a few times, to a few games of Battle Cry. I, of course take the Union, they have more units, cards and favorable terrain. Brady smiles patiently, takes his units and cards, and the battle begins. I move around the board, confident I have every advantage, and I LOSE! "INCONCEIVABLE!" I shout. "We shall play again.", I say, and we do, and I lose, again, and again, and again. Oh sure, every once in a while I do win, maybe even easily, but on the whole I get beaten like an old rug.

"Why, this game is unbalanced", I mummer to myself, but wait, weren't all the numbers in my favor? How is this so? Brady smiles again, and begins to show me where my gameplay nullified my advantage, and if I listen to his experience, and learn from my mistakes, I just might find that it's my turn to start winning a few.

Moral? (Also known as my opinion) "Balance" isn't a word I dwell upon in games like this. Because the PLAYER and their ABILITIES will always have a greater effect than any random unknown or superiority in forces ever will.

Don't beleive me? Google "Battle of Midway" for a real life example.

P.S. I want to thank BradyLS in advance fo my using him in my example. I have a great deal of respect for both his experience and the way he conducts himself on these boards. I hope my taking liberties with his persona does not offend.

EDITED: For spelling


I don't know why, but I found myself reading this using the voice of Sheldon from Big Bang Theory inside my head.

Bazinga.
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ferris1971 wrote:
CBallinger wrote:
Hang on folks hard right turn! (but still on topic)

First, a confession, I am no grognard. I am not even sure if I spelled it right! I enjoy "lite" strategic and/or tactical games, and a few years ago a system was introduced that fit my gaming taste to a "T". You may have heard of it. . ."The Commands and Colors" system, first introduced in the original "Battle Cry".

"Wait just a minute" you say, "We're talking about X-Wing here! Have you gone wonky?"

Well I submit to you that we are not talking about a game, we are talking about balance, and to me (AMATUER GAMER) that comes down to mechanics, and in particular any randomizing element (dice roll, card draw, etc.). In my opinion (that's right folks, this is all SUBJECTIVE), randomizing mechanics make balance a constantly moving target.

Why bring up Commands and Colors? Because it has both card draws and dice rolls that will affect the outcomes of engagements, and in the case of Battle Cry, scenarios were designed to mimic history, not level the gameboard playing field, as such one player may have a decided numerical advantage in units (sound familiar?)

"ENOUGH" you say, "What's your point?" Well perhaps an example. . .

I, a gamer who is nowhere close to as good as I think I am, challenge BradyLS, a gamer whose been around the block, uhm, gameboard a few times, to a few games of Battle Cry. I, of course take the Union, they have more units, cards and favorable terrain. Brady smiles patiently, takes his units and cards, and the battle begins. I move around the board, confident I have every advantage, and I LOSE! "INCONCEIVABLE!" I shout. "We shall play again.", I say, and we do, and I lose, again, and again, and again. Oh sure, every once in a while I do win, maybe even easily, but on the whole I get beaten like an old rug.

"Why, this game is unbalanced", I mummer to myself, but wait, weren't all the numbers in my favor? How is this so? Brady smiles again, and begins to show me where my gameplay nullified my advantage, and if I listen to his experience, and learn from my mistakes, I just might find that it's my turn to start winning a few.

Moral? (Also known as my opinion) "Balance" isn't a word I dwell upon in games like this. Because the PLAYER and their ABILITIES will always have a greater effect than any random unknown or superiority in forces ever will.

Don't beleive me? Google "Battle of Midway" for a real life example.

P.S. I want to thank BradyLS in advance fo my using him in my example. I have a great deal of respect for both his experience and the way he conducts himself on these boards. I hope my taking liberties with his persona does not offend.

EDITED: For spelling


I don't know why, but I found myself reading this using the voice of Sheldon from Big Bang Theory inside my head.

Bazinga.


Wait, was that sarcasm? Darn! I thought I had the hang of it.
 
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I've had a hard time winning with Imperials. Going to try a 7 TIE squad on Sunday to see if I do any better.
 
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