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Space Empires: 4X» Forums » Rules

Subject: cloaked raiders fight steps rss

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Captain Bobby
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Hi Guys,

I played my first game of space empires yesterdays and liked it a lot. We had a question during the game about cloaked raiders though and the rule book didn't seem to give us the answer to our debate.

So I'm asking here.

A player had 2 Raiders in his opponent's base the player attacked the Hex with the 2 raiders with no detection (DD with scanner). The raiders had cloaking 1.

My understanding at this point is that the player with the raiders can look at the opponent's army without revealing his and then decide if he wants to fight them. (if not he could retreat in an other hex)
This didn't happen the players with the raiders decided to fight the other persons army.

So at this point he would shoot first with A5 since he his cloaked and then for any other combat turns have A4 (without the +1 bonus and be targetable by the other person's army like any normal unit)

But the played stated that he was always cloaked (since the other didn't have detection) so that it was never the other player's turn. (so the player never had a turn to attack his raiders or retreat - lost by default)

I would like to know which is correct? do you absolutly need DD with scanners to be able to do anything against cloaked raiders? Or is my understanding correct?

Thanks for your help

MrB

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James Perry
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Think of it like the Klingons in the original Star Trek. They uncloak and then fire. That surprise gives them the A and the +1. After that they fight without the benefit of being cloaked.

And you do have to reveal that the stack is raiders but you decide if you are engaging in combat after you see the other stack.



 
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Jack Smith
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My understanding is:

Raiders are either cloaked or uncloaked due to scanners and nothing else. If they attack they can be attacked back but they are still cloaked.

If uncloaked by scanners it is treated as a normal ship and rolls on the D line.

If cloaked it can:

Avoid battle altogether.

Withdraw before the battle but after ships are revealed (not tech)

Always rolls on 'A' throughout the battle.

Gets a +1 bonus to attack roll in the first round.


That's all there is to them.

So in the Op's example they should have both rolled on 'A' and with +1 on first round, assuming both were cloaked ships, the example is not too clear on that.

Section 12.1.4 can easily be misread to assume 'A' is first round only when that applies to the +1.
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Captain Bobby
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OK, in my example. The other ships weren't raiders.
but according to the person that had the raiders the other person could never target or hit his ships during the battle.

basically I understand the advantages:

"Avoid battle altogether.

Withdraw before the battle but after ships are revealed (not tech)

Always rolls on 'A' throughout the battle.

Gets a +1 bonus to attack roll in the first round."

But after that first round, the Cloaked Raider (still cloaked) is a A4 unit that is tragetable (destroyable) by any ship even without any scanner present?
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Jack Smith
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MrBobby wrote:
OK, in my example. The other ships weren't raiders.
but according to the person that had the raiders the other person could never target or hit his ships during the battle.

basically I understand the advantages:

"Avoid battle altogether.

Withdraw before the battle but after ships are revealed (not tech)

Always rolls on 'A' throughout the battle.

Gets a +1 bonus to attack roll in the first round."

But after that first round, the Cloaked Raider (still cloaked) is a A4 unit that is tragetable (destroyable) by any ship even without any scanner present?


Yes as I said earlier, you have a battle. It would be a game breaker if you can't attack when being attacked. So any combat ship can attack it when in combat for every round. The advantage of being cloaked in a battle is rolling on 'A' and the +1 in the first round. Nothing in the rules suggests otherwise.

Cloaked does not always mean invisible, as James explained earlier (although you do keep the 'A' throughout the battle)
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Captain Bobby
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Thank you for the info. Looking forward to my next game!
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ɹǝsɐɹɟ
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Back in the days when there were less maps we played every map back to back
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Regai wrote:
Think of it like the Klingons Romulans in the original Star Trek...
FTFY
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michael esposito
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Yes. Klingons did not have the cloaking device until the movies.
 
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