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Quarriors! Quest of the Qladiator» Forums » General

Subject: Compatibility with advanced scoring rss

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Kiren Maelwulf
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So after watching Tom’s review complete with a look at all the cards I’m wondering, do people think these will work with advanced scoring rules? There are a lot of “when this creature scores” type of abilities that really don’t seem designed with the advanced scoring rules in mind. For instance, the Mighty Quaxos’ Eye reads: When QE scores, place this Creature on any Lock face in any player’s Locked Area. With advance scoring this is especially good if it prevents the necessary culling.
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Eric Walkingshaw
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I'm very interested to know this also. We only play with the advanced rules nowadays (along with some other tweaks), so if the expansion doesn't work well with them, I'll probably pass.

I really like Quarriors, but it's a frustrating game in a lot of ways.

First it required rules patching to make it interesting. I don't really mind this personally, but it really killed my potential player pool since one game group who was excited about the idea wrote it off as boring after the first few plays. This was especially silly considering the "advanced" rules aren't really any more complicated, and the designers admitted they knew from the start the game was better with those rules.

Then it introduced a cool idea (corruption) in the first expansion that wasn't really fully developed or followed up on in the next expansion. There should be cards for existing spell dice that use corruption, and Quarmageddon should come with corrupted versions of its creatures. Fortunately a BGG user came to the rescue in the second case.

Corrupted Qladiator creatures are probably too much to hope for, but I hope it at least works with the (seemingly standard, in these parts) "advanced" rules. I'm willing to patch rules at a high level to make the game fun, but not paste up cards.
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Brian M
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I'm curious to know about this as well. I enjoy Quarrior inordinatly to how silly and light it is, but it really doesn't work well without variants.
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Brian M
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I went ahead and picked it up this weekend.

Overall, it's about the same as the other sets. It works with advanced rules as long as you tweak things a bit.

As with earlier sets, we played that a creature which gets sent to a player when it scores overrides the rule that a creature is culled when it scored.

Incidentally, for our first game with the new set we decided to play "normal" rules, just to see if maybe we overestimated how bad it was. Utter disaster! The overall high attack values in the new set make the original rules even worse.
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Lee Fisher
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StormKnight wrote:
I went ahead and picked it up this weekend.

Overall, it's about the same as the other sets. It works with advanced rules as long as you tweak things a bit.

As with earlier sets, we played that a creature which gets sent to a player when it scores overrides the rule that a creature is culled when it scored.

Incidentally, for our first game with the new set we decided to play "normal" rules, just to see if maybe we overestimated how bad it was. Utter disaster! The overall high attack values in the new set make the original rules even worse.


Is this released?
 
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Brian M
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lfisher wrote:
Is this released?


Either that or I'm having some really odd hallucinations.
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Original Dibbler
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Yes, it was released november 7th
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Damon Asher
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When playing with advanced rules, I always count a creature as "scored" if it survives until the beginning of my turn. All abilities keyed to "scoring" trigger at this time. THEN, if I want the GLORY, the die must be CULLED. In other words, culling is only needed to get the glory. All other effects trigger without culling.


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Brian M
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Quote:
In other words, culling is only needed to get the glory. All other effects trigger without culling.

This would make most of the dice that do something other than being culled (such as the thieving Deathdealer) a LOT less useful. We've found they work fine with triggering and still scoring Glory.
 
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Damon Asher
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StormKnight wrote:
Quote:
In other words, culling is only needed to get the glory. All other effects trigger without culling.

This would make most of the dice that do something other than being culled (such as the thieving Deathdealer) a LOT less useful. We've found they work fine with triggering and still scoring Glory.


Just to clarify, when glory is scored as part of a creature's ABILITY, that would trigger without culling. Culling is only needed to score glory in the normal way (gain the glory on top of the Creature's card).

I've found all the cards in the first two expansions work well this way with expert scoring. Dunno if there's something wacky in the third that would throw this off.
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Brian M
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drasher25 wrote:
[q="StormKnight"]
Quote:
In other words, culling is only needed to get the glory. All other effects trigger without culling.

This would make most of the dice that do something other than being culled (such as the thieving Deathdealer) a LOT less useful. We've found they work fine with triggering and still scoring Glory.


Ok, this doesn't sound quite like what you said above.

Just to be clear, how would you play:

1) The regular Deathdealer (when it scores, exchange it for a creature in another player's used pile):

A) It can exchange for another creature OR cull and score Glory, but not both.

B) It both scores Glory AND exchanges for another creature.

My group is going with (B).

2) The Strong Death Dealer, who scores when you destroy a creature:

A) It scores and then goes to your used pile, since it is scoring via a special ability.

B) If scores and then is culled.

Again, we've been doing (B).
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Original Dibbler
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For the regular one I would say that you exchange it with the other creature and than cull that creature.

I am not sure how to handle the strong one though...
 
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Richard Dewsbery
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Given that they set themselves up with this problem, having two official ways to play, some time ago, I'm a little disappointed that they didn't think of a way through the minefield that they've created in time for the third expansion. At times, the Quarriors experience has felt somewhat under-developed. As we know, it's fairly easy to patch a computer game, and complete nightmare to try the same "fix" for an ailing board game.

I was wondering if the design team had effectively given up on developing Quarriors in favour of their new LOTR dice game. I'm thinking that if the latest expansion didn't unify things and eliminate problems, and instead just adds to the collection of dice that make you go "huh?", then my fears might have been correct.
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Original Dibbler
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I don't think that an expansion has to be compatible to variants that were published before.
 
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Richard Dewsbery
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But it is usually expected that it's compatible with the rules published in a previous expansion which were themselves added to try to improve the overall game experience; it's not like the "expert culling" rule is something fan-created.
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Brian M
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Originaldibbler wrote:
I don't think that an expansion has to be compatible to variants that were published before.


Given that the 'variants' are supposed to be in effect at any official Quarriors event, they dang well should be compatible.

(Plus, the game is much, much better with the variants!)
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Original Dibbler
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I like only one of the expert roles...
 
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Damon Asher
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StormKnight wrote:
drasher25 wrote:
[q="StormKnight"]
Quote:
In other words, culling is only needed to get the glory. All other effects trigger without culling.

This would make most of the dice that do something other than being culled (such as the thieving Deathdealer) a LOT less useful. We've found they work fine with triggering and still scoring Glory.


Ok, this doesn't sound quite like what you said above.

Just to be clear, how would you play:

1) The regular Deathdealer (when it scores, exchange it for a creature in another player's used pile):

A) It can exchange for another creature OR cull and score Glory, but not both.

B) It both scores Glory AND exchanges for another creature.

My group is going with (B).

2) The Strong Death Dealer, who scores when you destroy a creature:

A) It scores and then goes to your used pile, since it is scoring via a special ability.

B) If scores and then is culled.

Again, we've been doing (B).


Yup, these are tricky ones. Clearly the designers are not too concerned with supporting the Expert variant. The danger is that creatures that can score glory without being culled get a lot more powerful in relation to everything else.

I would choose (A) for both of these:
The regular Death Dealer can either swap or be culled to score glory. If you are swapping for a better creature that seems powerful enough in itself. Also, I think that the condition that Strong Death Dealer can score without being culled if he can kill something is interesting.

I can certainly see playing these either way, though. Personally, I like to make it harder to score, and I find it simpler to just make the rule that a normal scoring will cull a creature. Ability-driven scoring overrides the need to cull.

So, to summarize the way I play:
Scoring” is defined to mean that a creature survives until a player’s “Score Creatures” phase or is affected by an “immediately score creature” effect. When one of your Creatures "Scores", you may choose ONE of the following:

1) Cull the scoring Creature (send back to The Wilds) and add that creature's Glory value to your Glory total.

or

2) Trigger any “when this scores” abilities and move the scoring Creature to your used pile (unless ability moves die elsewhere). Abilities that cause scoring do not result in the creature being culled.

Also, players may Capture up to 2 dice in the Capture Phase (per Advanced Rule).

EDIT 27Jun2014 - clarification added
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E B
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My group ruled that scoring abilities always trigger, regardless of culling for glory. When an ability such as the death dealer trade requires the creature to be moved somewhere, you must choose either the ability OR the glory-cull, but not both. Any time some sort of "immediately score creature" ability comes up, culling is required.
So far it seems to work well.
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