Recommend
2 
 Thumb up
 Hide
10 Posts

Tsuro of the Seas» Forums » General

Subject: We fear the Daikaiju rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Mike Young
United States
Sterling
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I've brought Tsuro of the Seas to the table twice now and both times we declined to play with the Daikaiju.

We fear the fact that a bad roll -- or a series of bad rolls -- can eliminate you randomly without any strategy or player intervention.

What has people's experiences with the Daikaiju been? Have people tried the bonus tiles as well? We didn't have the rules for them when we tried playing, but now that we have them, we might try. Maybe.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bob
United States
Utah
flag msg tools
badge
Yes, that's a Japanese CTR ring shield cut in half...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I actually like the game better with the Daikaiju.
Although it adds an element of luck, it adds to the tentsion. I think after a few games of vanilla Tsuro, it becomes bland as most players stay in the game until the board is just about full and then you see who can put in their last piece and stay on the board.
Tsuro of the Sea--and the Daikaiju who can remove tiles leaving new areas to move into--though a bit more lucky, adds the possibility of staying on the board much longer and devising a better strategy than just "wait til the end."
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joshua R
United States
Chicago
Illinois
flag msg tools
GO TO JAPAN!
badge
Artist: Shohei Otomo
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Well the strategy is staying at least one tile away from the daikaiju, that's all... It can be difficult, and sometimes you have to risk trying to "slip by" one, but that's definitely part of the fun. Games tend to be short enough that it's not a major heartbreak if you gamble against the monster and fail.

We haven't had a chance to try the promo tile rules yet... Hopefully this week!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike Young
United States
Sterling
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
reitoei wrote:
Well the strategy is staying at least one tile away from the daikaiju...


But with many players, the Daikaiju can move multiple spaces between my turn and my next turn, right? So one space away might not be enough if the dice aren't with me.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jon Regul
United States
California
flag msg tools
Buggy wrote:
I've brought Tsuro of the Seas to the table twice now and both times we declined to play with the Daikaiju.

We fear the fact that a bad roll -- or a series of bad rolls -- can eliminate you randomly without any strategy or player intervention.

What has people's experiences with the Daikaiju been? Have people tried the bonus tiles as well? We didn't have the rules for them when we tried playing, but now that we have them, we might try. Maybe.


I've found that if you play without the Daikaiju the game plays like a subdued strategy game where players spend a long time thinking about where they're going, etc, without too many 'big cheer' moments.

This is contrasted by games using the Daikaiju where nearly every turn has players sitting on the edge of their seats waiting to see what happens with the Daikaiju and groans/cheers when they do kill somebody. In other words, they make the atmosphere much more into that 'party game' mode.

However using Daikaiju does also mean that players are much more likely knocked out sooner, which can leave them left sitting around watching while everyone else plays (which is a bummer).

In my opinion, reducing the number of Daikaiju that the game starts with by 1 or 2 (always keeping the minimum of 3 in play) can help to alleviate some of that feeling of the game being completely dominated by luck, as you do have a bit more room to maneuver.

Daikaiju also perform another important function, and that is to clear paths through existing tiles so the game doesn't just play out in a formulaic pattern...that's a big reason why I don't like playing without them completely.

A great compromise I've been experimenting with are house rules to make the Daikaiju less 'instantly lethal', and more strategy based.

Basically:

1) When a new Daikaiju is generated, it cannot be placed directly onto a space containing one or more ships, or directly in front of a space where a ship will be moving. If this is the space you roll, re-roll the dice until you find an eligible space to place it (if no such space exists, then no new Daikaiju is placed).

2) When the Daikaiju move, they will not move into a space occupied by one or more ships, or directly in front of a space where a ship will be moving in its next turn. If they are supposed to, simply don't move the Daikaiju that turn instead.


Basically these two house rules mean that the Daikaiju will no longer randomly 'get you' on a bad roll (or a series of bad rolls). Instead, they will only effect the game by randomly destroying existing empty wake tiles (clearing room for further strategy), and of course give you opportunities to 'force' other players into them in some cases.

So playing this way gives you some of the benefits of including Daikaiju in the game, but still gives players nearly complete control of their own destinies, which is a pretty good compromise IMHO.


4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jon Regul
United States
California
flag msg tools
Also, I just noticed that the 'Taihou' promotional tiles give you a way to prevent being killed by Daikaiju, which sounds great, but unfortunately I don't have any of those tiles (nor do I know how to get my hands on them)! Also, they would still require you to be 'lucky' to get your hands on them at the right time of the game.

So if you don't have access to those tiles, but still want to incorporate that kind of feel into the game (i.e. preventing the unlucky 'instant death' from a Daikaiju), you could play:


Anytime a ship would normally be removed from play by a Daikaiju, the ship can be 'saved from death' if the controlling player permanently surrenders one of their wake tiles from their maximum hand size.

Doing so means the Daikaiju is immediately removed from the table (which may require a new Daikaiju to be placed if this leaves less than 3 of them on the table).

A player may not surrender his last wake tile in order to be 'saved from death' in this way. If multiple ships would normally be removed simultaneously by a single Daikaiju, then each player must permanently surrender a wake tile in order to be 'saved from death'. Any affected ship that is unable to surrender a tile (because they are down to their final tile, for example) would be removed by the Daikaiju as normal.



So the above house rule would basically mean you get two 'get out of jail free' cards when getting killed by the Daikaiju, but at the cost of losing one of your wake tiles from your hand for the rest of the game. That means if you've been 'eaten' by the Daikaiju twice (but survived due to 'saved from death') you'd be down to playing with one wake tile per turn.

This seems like it would be a fair and balanced way to keep playing with all the random elements provided by the Daikaiju, but reducing that feeling of sometimes getting eliminated without having any options to prevent it from happening.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joshua R
United States
Chicago
Illinois
flag msg tools
GO TO JAPAN!
badge
Artist: Shohei Otomo
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
yakface wrote:

So playing this way gives you some of the benefits of including Daikaiju in the game, but still gives players nearly complete control of their own destinies, which is a pretty good compromise IMHO.

Those sound like reasonable house rules for a friendly group... I just played a couple games with my fiancee and on one turn, a daikaiju tried to eat her... She had a Taihou tile and used it, but we needed to replace the daikaiju to keep 3 on the board... We rolled the coordinates of my ship, but she didn't want the game to end then, so she re-rolled, rolled the coordinates of her ship, and re-rolled again. When two turns later a daikaiju moved off the board and was replaced by one that rolled into my ship again, we decided the game had it in for me and called it a loss, haha.

Here's a house rule I'm thinking of for us... Since it's usually just the two of us playing, once the 6 starting daikaiju are reduced to three, the board seems a bit sparse - I'm thinking that with a minimum of three and a maximum of six daikaiju on the board, any roll of doubles spawns a daikaiju.

Maybe used in conjunction with your 'non-hostile' daikaiju rule, that would be a nice balance of tension and strategy.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Keith Ferguson
United States
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
Hokie Hokie Hokie Hi! Tech Tech VPI!
badge
Santa's Workshop - Coming from Rio Grande Games in 2017
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
reitoei wrote:
Well the strategy is staying at least one tile away from the daikaiju, that's all...


Except a new monster can come on the board, in your spot and kill you regardless of how well you've stayed away from the existing monsters. Our group played this a few days ago and thought that the monsters pretty much eliminated any strategy and made it into a luckfest.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Marc Kenobi
United Kingdom
Poole
Dorset
flag msg tools
Someone in my group has the original, but I wanted my own copy and as I knew you could play the original rules with it I bought this version as there was no price difference and it came with the Daikaiju rules.

We love this game for it's simplicity which means non-gamers can pick it up and play but also that it moves along at a good clip and doesn't take a long time to play so we often break it out down the pub. That said we also love the fact that there is some strategy in the game that means it is not simply the luckiest player that wins and experienced or more strategic players have an edge.

Contrasting to most of the comments here my group have actually decided that we so strongly dislike the Daikaiju we aren't going to play with them after just one game.

We usually play this in large groups (that one game was 8 players) and we found that you might take one turn and then the Daikaiju move so many times before your turn that you're taken out having played just one tile - this happened to 3 players. I realise some rules changes suggested above might fix this.

There are so many of them that you can't play a strategy to keep away and it really feels like you are under threat from the start, ordinarily it feels as though you have a few turns to get into the game and stack tiles to execute a plan on how you want to progress. Again reducing the count might reduce this (at least until more spawn).

These are our two major issues though - it slows the game down and takes control away from the players.

On their turn each player rolls 2d6 and on a 6,7,8 you move the Daikaiju that's a 4/9 (44.4%) chance and then you need to roll a minimum of three times for the Daikaiju movement (and if you roll a 6 on that you place more Daikaiju via more dice). The result is an enormous time sink of dice rolling pretty much every other player. Also because they clear the board the games start to drag once you're down to 2 players because they are not forced into closing out the board and ending the game.

On our game 6 of the 8 players lost to the Daikaiju on another player's turn but in which the other player didn't plan on or make it happen - random dice rolling did.

I have to agree with Keith - the Daikaiju simply turn this into a luckfest.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ray Kri
msg tools
You only roll once when the Daikaiju moves. They all use the same dice.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.