Recommend
9 
 Thumb up
 Hide
17 Posts

Android: Netrunner» Forums » General

Subject: Moving Upwards - Seattle tournament results Oct 14 rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Jeremy York
United States
Washington
flag msg tools
mbmb
Andrew Veen stood out from the crowd, both in his choice of factions (Shaper + Weyland) and in his performance (2 game wins in every match he played in our 4-round Swiss pairing format). His prize is a free copy of the upcoming data pack from the Prunesquallor.net web store.

Andrew, if you are willing to share deck lists with us that would be fantastic!

Nearly everyone else was running Haas-Bioroid + Criminal (myself included). The field consisted of 14 players, with 5-6 more who sent their regrets or only had time to stop by and say hello, so we're hoping for an even bigger turnout next time. After four rounds of Swiss pairings, the top four finishers were :

(Name : prestige)
Andrew Veen : 24
Brendan Davis : 14
Ket Ng : 13
Mike Cooper : 13

The level of competition was very strong, and we're all looking forward to doing this again soon.

In the meantime, there's a Sunday night league starting at Card Kingdom, Wednesday night games at Ernie's in Woodinville from 5 until late; the folks from Ernie's are talking about doing a tournament sometime; and we're hoping to get more regular action going at some other local shops.

To find some Seattle area games, join the Google group at
http://groups.google.com/group/Netrunner-LCG-Seattle-Grid
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Viktor Blahut
Hungary
Békéscsaba
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
auction_prune wrote:
Nearly everyone else was running Haas-Bioroid + Criminal

That sounds super-boring. shake Hurray for the Weyland+Shaper guy!

Edit: to avoid any misunderstanding I'd just like to add that I meant the metagame, not your tournament; I'm sure the tournament was fun. In fact, I'm a little jealous, I don't think there'll be any ANR tournaments here, or even in our capital.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alex Rockwell
United States
Lynnwood
Washington
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Well, I started 3-0 and lost to the winner. But I had 1-1, point based wins where I scored more in my losses than my opponent.

I have the winning decklists and some thoughts to post when I get time


We hadnt had anyone in our meta build a good Kate deck, and so we had developed this inbred, HB heavy meta with a lot of criminal and anarch. Winner's decks were both strong decks that were especially good in our meta.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eliot Hemingway
United States
Seattle
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
What's weird is that I play at Card Kingdom, and yet I haven't played against a single HB deck yet. It's almost all all Weyland and Jinteki down here. Particularly Weyland, which is way, way better than the general online consensus.

Wish I'd made it to the tournament.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alex Rockwell
United States
Lynnwood
Washington
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Winning decklists by Andrew Veen:
(if I'm off a card I apologize, but pretty sure these are right).

***********************************************
Weyland Corp: 49 Cards:
***********************************************

Agendas:
3 Priorty Req
3 Private Security Force
3 Hostile Takeover
2 Posted Bounty

Assets/Operations/Upgrades
2 Melange Mining Corp
3 Hedge Fund
3 Beanstalk Royalties
3 Scorched Earth
3 Archived Memories (!!) ******
1 Ghost Branch *
2 Corporate Troubleshooter **

Ice:
2 Data Raven ****
1 Tollbooth **
3 Archer
3 Hadrian's Wall
3 Ice Wall
3 Shadow
3 Enigma
3 Wall of Static


Post-tourney thoughts:
We discussed things in detail, and Andrew's thoughts were that he should cut a Tollbooth for a Data Raven (not that tollbooth is bad at all, its awesome, but Data Raven is great in this), and cut something for a 3rd Melange Mining Corp.

Archived Memories is great in this deck because it serves as additional scorched earths for the combo, while also getting back Hedge Fund, to play for $5. (And use that Weyland ability more, yeah!).

He killed a couple runners who didnt respect the data raven tags, by blowing big money into those traces and then comboing them. Other wins came mainly from wrecking people with Archer, possibly super pumped by a Corporate Troubleshooter to ruin their board and chances at winning.

The Ghost Branch is optional, its a reasonable trap. Another option might be a Rototurret to combo well with Troubleshooter.


The only card in the deck I don't like personally is Hadrian's Wall, but it makes sense in this deck because it is the ONLY high cost ice, so you have the money for it, and its a good endgame stopper against decks like Kate, or to block R&D against Noise. Just don't pay 10 to res it early on when you aren't rich, since then you wont be able to defend other things.

The deck was similar to a Weyland deck I have been trying, but I was using Snare instead of Archived Memories. I think Snare is a card that just wrecks noobs in this deck, a good player wont run you in their last action, so against a strong player the Archived Memories are probably better. The deck has the Scorched earth kill as an option not the main plan. It makes Data Raven a huge threat, and you can often kill someone with Scorched Earth/Archived Memories, after starting the turn with a 3 advanced Posted Bounty (that you have sitting behind an unbeatable archer). The deck avoids bad cards like Shipment from Kaguya and especially Agressive Negotiations. Because those cards are bad and the ones in this deck are good.

*************************************************
Kate runner: 45 cards:
*************************************************

Icebreakers:
3 Gordian Blade
3 Battering Ram
2 Ninja ****

Other Programs:
1 Sneakdoor Beta (!!) ***
3 Magnum Opus

Hardware:
2 Toolbox
3 Mem Chip
2 Cyberfeeder **

Resources:
3 Bank Job ******
3 Armitage Codebusting
2 Aesop's Pawnshop

Events:
3 Diesel
3 Modded
3 Tinkering
3 Makers Eye
3 Sure Gamble
3 Infiltration


The deck mostly ignores its opponent for the first number of turns while it sets up its strong endgame engine. It sets it up pretty quickly however, faster than I've seen most Kate decks work. Magnum Opus is key, and Bank Job is a huge income source if you can get through. Then, pawnshop trashing combined with free bits per turn provide the ability to go through basically anything.

However, the deck is not totally passive early. Andrew aggressively used Tinkering and Makers Eye to try to score early agendas, either on installed cards that looked like Agendas (tinkering the ice in front to let him through), or from Maker's Eye R&D runs if it was accessible or possible to get through with a tinkering.

Basically, the strategy is to play solitaire and build as fast as possible, interrupted by Bank Job running/trashing assets, Tinkering running suspected agendas (with infiltration to check), and Maker's Eye on R&D either early if it can be gotten through, or as a lategame win condition.

The addition of the Sneakdoor Beta was key, as it was unexpected and could be put down midgame followed by 3 hand runs against an unprepared opponent. This also makes defending the hand much more difficult or impossible, as you cannot sufficiently protect two areas given how many free bits this deck gets per turn.


2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alex Rockwell
United States
Lynnwood
Washington
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Corbeau wrote:
Particularly Weyland, which is way, way better than the general online consensus.


I agree, Weyland is super good. You have two ways to win. Don't rely entirely on either one of them.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alex Rockwell
United States
Lynnwood
Washington
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thoughts on the Meta:

Our Meta was pretty skewed towards Criminal and HB.

I have been playing a Criminal deck at local shops that was initially wrecking people, as it violently attacked any holes in the defense (often for monetary gain), and tried to create more holes as well. It was really good against anyone who had too much high cost ice, too much ice that didnt end the run, too little ice, or who made more than 1 additional data fort (in which they score agendas or temporarily place mining corp or adonis campaign).

My Criminal Decklist that I played:
*******************
Gabriel Santiago: 45 Cards:

Icebreakers:
1 Yog *
2 Corroder ****
3 Femme Fatale (!)

Other Programs:
3 Parasite (!) ******
3 Datasucker (!) ***
2 Sneakdoor Beta

Hardware:
3 Desperado
1 Mem Chip

Resources:
3 Bank Job
3 Crash Space (great vs Weyland and NBN, and for Account Siphon)
3 Armitage Codebusting

Events:
3 Special Order
3 Forged Activation Orders
3 Account Siphon
2 Inside Job
3 Sure Gamble
3 Easy Mark
1 Infiltration


The strategy was to run their ice early, without programs down, keeping them poor to res ice, hopefully expensive ice. Then, Parasite ice to kill it, Forged Activation orders ice when they are broke to kill it, and go nuts with runs, gaining money from Desperado and getting Datasucker counters, which have many uses.

You keep them in an opening state for as long as possible, with Parasite, Forged Activation, Account Siphon, and making them pay for ice. You want to score some points and get a lot of free money from Desperado and your ability early on. You can extend the early game some more by dropping a Sneakdoor and getting free HQ runs unti lthey can ice it.

You become more vulnerable once you play a program, as you turn on ice like Ichi, and can be hurt by Rototurret. This puts you in the midgame, where you hope to win, because you have a weak endgame.

This deck, combined with well played aggression, wrecks noobs harder than anything you've ever seen. But it dies against a strong player, who does the following things:
* Does not allow you to bank job, EVER (no subsidiary fort that you can get through without significant cost, ever).
* Ices HQ and R&D early with cheap, end the run ice, and then reinforces HQ.
* Pre-emptively ices archives, before you can either sneakdoor it, or get a Desperado/Datasucker combo going.
* Plays enough ice in their deck (the rulebook recommendation isn't really enough many times against this deck).

If a player can shut your runs down and make it so you cant break a hole through, while maintaining enough money to keep paying for their ice, then you are the underdog. Basically, this deck is the aggro, and a corp defense beats it with cheap end the run ice and sufficient money.

Some thoughts on the cards:
Femme Fatale over Ninja: Femme is expensive, but can nullify one large ice when played, like a Tollbooth, which is a big problem and everyone I know is playing many of them. It also bypasses troublesome Data Raven or Hadrian's Wall cheaply.
The fact that Femme is expensive to pump is not an issue with Datasuckers, with the exveption of getting nailed by Corporate Troubleshooter, which then wrecks you.

Parasite: Parasite kills big ice, often instantly with Datasucker counters, letting you continue to hit your opponent. Its a key to this deck. This combos with Forged Activation Orders by allowing you to see an expensive ice and then Parasite it without getting wrecked by it (Archer, Tollbooth, etc).

Datasucker: This combos with Yog, Femme Fatale, Parasite, and Desperado. This plus Desperado turns many runs from losing propositions into money neutral or even beneficial runs.

Crash Space: Defends well vs Weyland and NBN while also making Account Siphon even more of a beating.

Sneakdoor Beta: This is a midgame card, but you have memory issues so you must trash it later sometimes. Basically I like to get them to res HQ ice, play sneakdoor and hit them, and keep using it until they expend sufficient resources that archives is now tough to get through. I then trash it for other programs. Those resources didnt go into protecting HQ, so it is still not too hard to get through for account siphons hopefully.

Account Siphon: This card is CRAZY good. Use it early in the turn
then remove the tags with crash space. I like to break people with this and then Forged Activation Orders their new ice.

Desperado: This card is key to your early game, as well as serving as an extra Bad Publicity for you later. Generally I mulligan hands without it, unless they are really awesome.


Should you play this deck? If your metagame has a lot of people playing subsidiary data forts a lot, low ice counts or lots of high cost ice, lots of non end the run ice (tracing ice), then it will wreck them.

Unfortunately for me, by this tournament our meta had shifted far in the other direction, with a bunch of HB decks playing 3 ice deep in every fort and never making more than 1 subsidiary data fort, and playing tons of ice and lots of cheap solid ice like Ice Wall, so my runner did poorly.


On to my Corp. This is version 2.0 of the decklist I posted earlier on these forums. Now with double the SanSan!
******************************
Haas-Bioroid deck: 49 Cards:

Agendas:
3 Priorty Requisition
3 Private Security Force
3 Accelerated Beta Test

Assets/Upgrades
2 SanSan City Grid ****** (Most importand card in the deck)
3 Melange Mining Corp (!! omg its goooooood)
3 Adonis Campaign
2 Corporate Troubleshooter

0 terrible Bank-Jobbable Pad Campaigns that spread your ice too thin. (They are terrible in my meta now, literally every person has Bank Job. Every Anarch and Kate deck I saw was splashing three in the tournament).

Operations:
3 Biotic Labor (2nd most important card in the deck. This card is both your lategame reach, and your early game plan to rush an unprotectable Beta Test through to try for ice if things go poorly early). When your opponent runs your hand and sees this, you should say "These arent the droids youre looking for". Because they are droids!! Haha!!
3 Archived Memories (Amazing card. Common targets are SanSan, Biotic Labor, Adonis Campaign, Mining campaign, and most importantly, Agendas lost to Beta Test).
3 Hedge Fund


Ice:
3 Wall of Thorns *** (This card's damage is solid and I have won games because of my opponent running into it and losing their only Yog/Corroder, or searching for many turns for another one).
3 Wall of Static
2 Heimdall (Its kindof bad, but its good in a beta test. Don't rely on it, its just a part of a big fort, but it can be bypassed for 2 actions + a brain or 3 actions. Lategame I often see the brain damage + 2 action option taken).

2 Tollbooth **** (Want three but SanSan is too important).
3 Enigma

no horrible Viktor's that don't actually stop anyone early on and are free to Yog through later.

3 Ichi
3 Rototurret
2 Shadow (!) ** (Economic Beatdown early on. Alternately use Ice Wall, but I love that this essentially costs 1 and then never takes less than $2 to get through later on, unless you are Kate with high link. Most decks can't just take the tags, as they have resources they need like Wyldside. Or they will fear what you can do simply because you are running an ice that traces. I had one opponent just ignore the tags, and I rushed through a Private Security force and started doing meat damage. He burned through most of his deck while he had to spend 3 actions a turn drawing to not die, and 1 removing a tag.



This is a strong HB deck, with an excellent lategame plan. You can wreck people with Troubleshooter + Rototurret, or pay to defend an agenda. All your cards you install are big threats in this deck, even unadvanced, which is not true for most corps. Generally the runner knows its not a 2+ point agenda if it appeared and wasnt advanced. This deck thats not true, and not only that, you often dont even have to leave an agenda out during the runner's turn ever. The SanSan allows this, and then they have to spend a lot of money goign through and paying 5 to kill the SanSan, which you bring back later with archived memories and drain their resources yet again.

People playing HB decks without Biotic Labor are missing out on the entire reason to play HB, which is its strong lategame. Its much easier to protect an agenda by a ton of ice on HQ and four non agenda cards in hand, followed by Biotic Laboring it through for the win, rather than putting it on the board and letting an endgame runner take it (because endgame runner gets through anything, just expensively). Not playing Biotic Labor would be like not playing burn cards in a red aggro deck in magic to help you finish them off. SanSan is like a super biotic labor.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Anthony Giovannetti
United States
Woodinville / Bothell Area
Washington
flag msg tools
Avatar
Had a blast even though my corp deck completely putzed out three times.

My runner deck was a slight variation on Alex's and didn't drop a game.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
B C Z
United States
Reston
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
SneakySly wrote:
Had a blast even though my corp deck completely putzed out three times.

My runner deck was a slight variation on Alex's and didn't drop a game.


What does 'didn't drop a game' mean?

If the top finisher had 24 Prestige points across 4 rounds of swiss, it means that player won every single game they played (6 PP x 4 rounds).

The next highest Prestige was 14.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike Cooper
United States
Washington
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
Thanks to Jeremy for organising the event!

I'd post my decks but I don't think there's a lot of point. They were pretty terrible since I didn't really get to test them. I got lucky to do as well as I did.

At least I managed to get my worst Netrunner play ever in against Andrew, who would probably have beaten me anyway...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ben Finkel
United States
Washington
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Oh, oh, what? Top 4? So poor old me at #5 gets no glory?

Thanks a bunch for putting this on. I had quite a blast! I wish I had had more opportunity to practice beforehand. Some of the decks were really wild!

Alexfrog wrote:
I had one opponent just ignore the tags, and I rushed through a Private Security force and started doing meat damage. He burned through most of his deck while he had to spend 3 actions a turn drawing to not die, and 1 removing a tag.


You misremember, Alex - you burned through all of my deck. I had one card in hand at the end of the game, and everything else was in the heap. I should not have won that game.

byronczimmer wrote:
What does 'didn't drop a game' mean?

If the top finisher had 24 Prestige points across 4 rounds of swiss, it means that player won every single game they played (6 PP x 4 rounds).

The next highest Prestige was 14.


Not every player contended with Andrew. I certainly didn't. So it's possible that Anthony's Runner never lost.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Anthony Giovannetti
United States
Woodinville / Bothell Area
Washington
flag msg tools
Avatar
Yeah I unfortunately never got to play Andrew except in a side game as corp for fun (ironically in that game my corp deck worked amazingly).

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
spags
United States
Ill Mil
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Nice. My Kate deck is nearly identical. Sneakdoor is a great surprise.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alex Rockwell
United States
Lynnwood
Washington
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I tested the Weyland deck some and the Hadrian's Walls are indeed great in it. Its your only high cost ice, you need more serious run stoppers than just Archer, and you dont have influence to splash enough other big ice like Tollbooth.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alex Rockwell
United States
Lynnwood
Washington
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Azeltir wrote:

If the top finisher had 24 Prestige points across 4 rounds of swiss, it means that player won every single game they played (6 PP x 4 rounds).

The next highest Prestige was 14.

[/q]

The prestige system heavily rewards going 2-0 in a match. I was playing for match wins all day and won my first three. I would get to the point as corp where I am like: okay, I only need 5 points to get the match win. So I will spend everything I have biotic laboring through this Security Force to put myself at 5. I'll be broke and probably lose afterwards, but I'll have won the match. And then I would lose that game as a result and win the match. I'm not sure how I feel about this.


 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeremy York
United States
Washington
flag msg tools
mbmb
Sorry, Ben, the pack got so tight below 4th that I decided to draw the line there.

Alexfrog wrote:

The prestige system heavily rewards going 2-0 in a match... I'm not sure how I feel about this.


Agreed. Since this was only 4 rounds, it heightened the impact of this, I think.

We went for 75 minute rounds, and I think there was at least one match in each round that timed out. This meant there wasn't really the possibility of going for 5 rounds (my goal was to keep the event to roughly 6 hours).

Next time I think I will go for the regulation round length of 65 minutes, and go for 5 rounds.

On round length, I think people are getting more experienced with the game and can play faster now. My games usually ran long, and my theory on that is that my single-core-set decks just aren't as good, and a less-good deck competently played actually makes the game go slower.

On scoring, since there's no benefit to running these local tournaments according to the "official" rules, we could come up with our own format (e.g. 35 minute rounds where you play a single game, balancing corp vs runner over the course of 8 rounds; or have the scoring be driven by match wins rather than prestige). However, if anyone does aspire to go off to one of the big tournaments run by FFG, this could mess them up because they have less experience with the real thing.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alex Rockwell
United States
Lynnwood
Washington
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
auction_prune wrote:
My games usually ran long, and my theory on that is that my single-core-set decks just aren't as good, and a less-good deck competently played actually makes the game go slower.


I agree, better decks build up faster and are able to reach the endgame earlier.

One issue with time is that Weyland games often take a long time unless they scorched earth combo fast, as a result of agenda forfeiting.


Quote:

On scoring, since there's no benefit to running these local tournaments according to the "official" rules, we could come up with our own format (e.g. 35 minute rounds where you play a single game, balancing corp vs runner over the course of 8 rounds; or have the scoring be driven by match wins rather than prestige). However, if anyone does aspire to go off to one of the big tournaments run by FFG, this could mess them up because they have less experience with the real thing.


I think both players need to be runner and corp once in a match. I like using just match wins. In a Magic the Gathering tournament, you gain no benefit from beating an opponent 2-0 versus 2-1, they both score the same. Winning a match 1-1 by scoring more agendas in your loss is like winning a magic match 2-1 instead of 2-0.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.