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BattleCON: War of Indines» Forums » Variants

Subject: New Character Idea (And sorry for my absence) rss

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Marco Santos
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I'm really sorry that I've gone AWOL. Was busy with school and whatnot. However, I'm back now with a new character to tickle brains with. I present to you:


Gekido, the Furious Fist

Unique Ability: Fists of Fury
When attacking using his Revealed Attack Pair, On Hit and after all other effects resolve, Gekido executes the attack in his Discard 2.
When attacking using his Discard 2 Attack Pair, On Hit and after all other effects resolve, Gekido executes the attack in his Discard 1.

When performing an attack other than his Revealed Attack Pair, Gekido can not switch sides with opponents.

Finish: Channel the Dragon
Range: N/A
Power: N/A
Priority: 6
After Activating: Your unique ability triggers After Activating instead of On Hit for the rest of the match.

Styles:

Tiger:
Range: +0
Power: -1
Priority: +0
On Hit, Revealed Pair: Power+1
On Hit, Discard 1 Pair: Power +2

Monkey:
Range: +0
Power: -2
Priority: +2
Before Activating, Revealed Pair: Move up to 1 space.
On Hit, Discard 1 Pair: Move the opponent directly to any unoccupied space.

Snake:
Range: +0~1
Power: -2
Priority: +1
On Hit, Revealed Pair: The opponent has Power -1 for the rest of the beat.
On Hit, Discard 2 Pair: The opponent can not move for the rest of the beat.

Mantis:
Range: +0
Power: -2
Priority: +1
On Hit, Discard 2 Pair: The opponent has Priority -2 next beat.
On Damage, Discard 1 Pair: The opponent is stunned.

Crane:
Range: +0
Power: -2
Priority: +0
On Hit, Revealed Pair: You may switch the order of your Discards.
On Hit, Discard 2 Pair: You may repeat this attack instead of executing your Discard 1 Attack Pair. (This effect may only be used once per beat.)

Base:

Thrust:
Range: 1
Power: 2
Priority: 6
Before Activating, Discard 2 Pair: Range +0~1
On Hit, Discard 1 Pair: Power +2

FAQ:
1)The clauses that state “Discard 1 Pair,” “Discard 2 Pair,” and “Revealed Pair” mean that that effect only activates if the card is in that specific attack pair.

For example:
I set down “Tiger Thrust” for my attack pair while having “Snake Drive” in my Discard 2. Upon revealing the attack pairs, Tiger Thrust is considered my “Revealed Pair.” As such, On Hit, I only gain Power +1 from Tiger’s effect; not Power +2 or Power + 3. Since this attack hits and I’ve resolved all effects, I now execute my “Discard 2 Attack” which is Snake Drive. On hit, since Snake was in my Discard 2, I make use of Snake’s “Discard 2 Pair” On Hit effect which is “The opponent can not move for the rest of this beat.”

2) When you execute another attack, you only perform: Before Activating, On Hit, On Damage, and After Activating.

3) Status effects such as Power+1 from Tiger’s On Hit, Revealed Pair persist throughout all your other attacks.

4) Executing your extra attacks is MANDATORY.



The goal:
My goal was to create a combo-fighter similar to Shekhtur but instead of focusing on raw-power attacks, he made use of stringing multiple attacks together.

What do you guys think? Any suggestions to make him better?
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Nate K
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This guy's abilities make my head hurt
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Thiago Colas
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Nice idea, nice concept for the power. But its really too complex. And more than that, in the end, there will be too many abilities happening at once. Not to mention Gekido can ultimately Dash every single turn if he wants to. (Beat 1: Dash-> Beat 2: Attack, then dash->Beat 3: Attack, attack, then dash. Lather, rince, repeat).

Perhaps if the following attacks caused just the damage, it could be a possibility. The way it is, it frankly give Sagas a run for his money as the most complex char in the whole game.

The idea is good though. Just need some serious work.
 
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Red Mage
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dinobottm2 wrote:
Not to mention Gekido can ultimately Dash every single turn if he wants to. (Beat 1: Dash-> Beat 2: Attack, then dash->Beat 3: Attack, attack, then dash. Lather, rince, repeat).


If I read right, only a dash in the main revealed pair is useful, since he cannot switch sides using either discards, making dashes more of a 'run back' kind of move.

Anyway, interesting combo style ability. Kind of reminds me of the Monk job in Final Fantasy XIV, they got crazy long combos. Plus the name sounds like a Roegadyn, a race from the same game, would call himself.
 
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One Armed Bandit
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Knuckles Eki wrote:
dinobottm2 wrote:
Not to mention Gekido can ultimately Dash every single turn if he wants to. (Beat 1: Dash-> Beat 2: Attack, then dash->Beat 3: Attack, attack, then dash. Lather, rince, repeat).


If I read right, only a dash in the main revealed pair is useful, since he cannot switch sides using either discards, making dashes more of a 'run back' kind of move.


No... he executes the discard attacks after hitting, during his activation phase.

So he wins priority, attacks, hits, attacks again, hits again, then dashes. Now the opponent can act. But he's been dashed, can't hit.
 
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Red Mage
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palmerkun wrote:
No... he executes the discard attacks after hitting, during his activation phase.

So he wins priority, attacks, hits, attacks again, hits again, then dashes. Now the opponent can act. But he's been dashed, can't hit.


I don't think he can dash over from using a dash in either discards.
 
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Marco Santos
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Knuckles Eki wrote:
palmerkun wrote:
No... he executes the discard attacks after hitting, during his activation phase.

So he wins priority, attacks, hits, attacks again, hits again, then dashes. Now the opponent can act. But he's been dashed, can't hit.


I don't think he can dash over from using a dash in either discards.


The UA states that "Cannot switch sides when executing a Discard attack"

So Dashes serve as a "reposition thing"

So its either:

Dash on Reveal. No discard attacks.

Hit on Reveal. Hit with Discard 1 THEN Dash.

or Hit on Reveal. Then Dash.

Dashing ultimately lowers his Damage output substantially for 2 beats.


Notes:

His Overdrive turns him into a dashing beast. Dash on Reveal then safely hit 2 attacks. Crazy. @_@
 
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Joe Romero
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This is an extremely neat concept for a character, but boy, does he land squarely in the advanced to play section. Running theory work for this character is extremely difficult, since guaranteeing a hit for every part of the combo isn't certain.

I think that's the major issue I see with this character right now: It's incredibly difficult to get an assessment of how well he does based on numbers. Optimal play is something that's going to be very difficult for him to achieve, since the average power of his styles is so low, landing three hits is often going to give him a maximum damage of 3 per beat. Tiger style, Strike and Thrust are the only ways he can ever surpass 1 damage per attack.

So, this is just theory of course, but I think this guy really wants a tool to deal with soak. An opponent with soak 1 ruins his day.

Kudos, though, this character looks hilarious to play, great work.

Also, I could only think of the following while looking at this.


 
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Marco Santos
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Yup. That vid sums up what he does perfectly!

Yeah, Soak screws with him a lot.

I think that a good way to fix him would be to just remove the whole "effect changes depending on where the card is" thing.

Then, I'd just give him Bonuses for hitting more times as an incentive.

Of course the Soak thing is REQUIRED.

Would it make it simpler if he instead repeated attacks but kept the same style?

So for example:

Tiger thrust > Tiger Strike > Tiger Drive
 
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Joe Romero
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I actually like how he looks at the moment right now, and the appeal of rattling off ridiculous combo names tickles my fancy. Tiger Drive Mantis Strike Monkey Burst! (I just made random combinations there, but looking that up, it would be a pretty solid combo. Strong approach, debuff and teleport enemy.)

However, changing the on hit effects to "If you've already hit the opponent" phrases would help the complexity of this character a lot I think. He's really front loaded with his difficulty, and I think a lot of players are going to be stymied by the complexity of his UA, but I personally think it's a fun UA, so I'd keep it.

Making the styles simpler would ease the mental processes behind making a full combo happen.

With tiger, you may want to phrase the power boost as something like "You receive +1 power for the remainder of the beat", to make it exceptionally clear that the bonus persists for all attacks (I didn't read that first time)
 
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Jared Voshall
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Something you might try is adding in one of the Key Word abilities I came up with for my fan expansion - Soak Break would be the most obvious fit (reduce oponent's Soak by X before dealing damage), but Guard Break (gain +X Power if attack would not Stun opponent) or Stun Break (treat as +X power for purposes of determining stun) could work as well.
Magius out.
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Thiago Colas
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The main issue here is that he has too many things happening at once every turn. You need to slim him down a lot, to make it simpler.

If you look at the other cards on the game, hitting more than once is something that is very rare, an option that very few characters have, and usually only with one specific style or with several penalties. Its cool to have a char that specialises on many hits per beat, but still, he needs some rework. Of the Basic Set, only Luc and Heketch can repeat an attack. Both can do it only once and both need to spend resources to do so.

Another thing is that the limitation for his second and thirt attack is mostly an ilusion. Unless your first attack was a Shot or Burst, if it hits, every other attack will hit too. Shots and Bursts in the discart piles will hit normally and not change a thing, so, the three hit combo is almost automatic.

The priority element also makes it tough. I mean, you can have a very strong but slow attack on your discart pile and then use two fast but weak attacks to effectively pull that priority to the roof.

Again, great concept, but lots of possibilities for abuse and/or headache.
 
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Marco Santos
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I've theory crafted everything and the most he can deal is 8 with a perfect set up of Tiger Strike + Any 2 other attacks.

I think people are misinterpreting the power of his attacks. Sure he doesn't need resources to do hi repeated attacks. Just note that they're weak as hell. Regicide can do 8 damage with Psycho Strike no problem.

Gekido on the other hand, NEEDS to have a full combo to do ANYTHING. And sure it can reach 8 damage. And sure it's easy to hit the full combo but that's the POINT. To get that full 8 damage combo, you need to have offensive attacks in your discards. That means no dashing and no bursting (because the 2 minimum range screws you)

So in order to deal any damage at all, you need to stay offensive 100%. Then, when you dash, you have 2 beats wherein you do absolutely pitiful damage.

I think his overdrive makes him a bit too powerful. Because of its nature, Dashing no longer limits his damage and thusly, he can Dash then hit people with discard attacks which is quite frustrating to deal with.

Will check out balances later. Might streamline the styles.
 
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Thiago Colas
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mnmkami wrote:
I've theory crafted everything and the most he can deal is 8 with a perfect set up of Tiger Strike + Any 2 other attacks.

I think people are misinterpreting the power of his attacks. Sure he doesn't need resources to do hi repeated attacks. Just note that they're weak as hell. Regicide can do 8 damage with Psycho Strike no problem.

Gekido on the other hand, NEEDS to have a full combo to do ANYTHING. And sure it can reach 8 damage. And sure it's easy to hit the full combo but that's the POINT. To get that full 8 damage combo, you need to have offensive attacks in your discards. That means no dashing and no bursting (because the 2 minimum range screws you)

So in order to deal any damage at all, you need to stay offensive 100%. Then, when you dash, you have 2 beats wherein you do absolutely pitiful damage.

I think his overdrive makes him a bit too powerful. Because of its nature, Dashing no longer limits his damage and thusly, he can Dash then hit people with discard attacks which is quite frustrating to deal with.

Will check out balances later. Might streamline the styles.


The thing here is not the powers, its the effects. All the moves, stun guards, bonuses, MORE moves. And at any given beat, Gekido will almost always have at least two, possibly three different abilities happening at the same time.

The power may be not that large, but, as i said, the main issue with him is not the sum of damage, or the priority issue, or everything like that. The main issue is how complex he is. He really needs to be streamlined.

My personal oppinion is that the great thing about Battlecon (and any fighting game, in fact) is how fast and simple it is to pick up and play. The rules are simple and the goal is obvious (well, used to be). But playing with Geki means taking accont to up to four different move actions and up to three different special abilities happening at the same time. Depending on who is playing him, it may end up slowing down a match to maybe twice the usual time. Thats what i mean by "streamline the character".

Also, Byron would last two beats against him.

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Joe Romero
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I'm pretty sure Byron has a clause to deal with the existing battlecon characters to avoid disasters like that. Probably like, he can only lose the token the first time he's hit during a beat.

Anyway, Gekido doesn't, surprisingly have any timing conflicts. If you want to absolutely future proof him, I suppose you could have his ability trigger during After Activating, after all other activations, if he hit the opponent. That way, he goes through the entirety of a moves activation (Before, Hit, Damage, After) before his UA kicks in. This streamlines his turn to performing an entire move, and another if he hit, and another if he hit.

I know that's pretty much what the ability says right now, but it guarantees that he doesn't break the games wording, in case some character ever comes along and say, inflicts a status effect that triggers during After activating or something.

tl;dr, He just executes up to 3 moves in a row. There aren't any nested effects that you have to come back to later in the turn. As is written.

Just make sure the styles don't break that.

Anyway, I'm going to try this character when I get home against that single player robot I made. Because playing against something stupid like that will surely get viable results whistle
 
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