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Star Wars: X-Wing Miniatures Game» Forums » Variants

Subject: Enhanced Manoeuvrability rss

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Mark Shilling
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Pilots of a higher skill value move after those of a lower skill value. However, their superior pilot skills dont allow them any opportunity to react and out manoeuver lower skilled pilots as they are compelled complete the exact manoeuver selected in the Planning Phase irrespective of what they see the lower skilled pilots do before them.

I'm considering the following varient to give a slight edge to the higher skilled pilots in order to reflect their superior flying abilities:

During Step 2 & 3 of the Activation Stage you ignor the 'guide bumps' on the model base and instead place the move template anywhere along the front edge of the model base as long as NO PART of the template goes beyond the left or right edges of the base. Then the ship is moved to the opposite end of the template and placed with the any part of the back edge of the base touching the movement template as long as NO PART of the template goes beyond the left or right edge of the base.

In effect this just removes the requirement for the movement template to be placed between the two guide 'bumps' before and after moving (just as per Barrel Roll).

It allows small adjustments to manoeuvers by all pilots but with those of a higher skill level having an opportunity to react to what lower skill pilots have already done which is currently not possible.

It doesnt nerf Barrel Roll as the adjustments amount only to a half base width difference in placement. Barrel Roll will still exist in addition.

I think this adds an additional element of choice and strategy without slowing game play and nicely reflects the more skillful pilots ability to out think and react to the moves of the lower skill pilots.

What do you think?
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Bob Smithy

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Superior skill is already in them firing first and not being stuck in the front of a pileup. This would make Vader even more powerful, and he's hard enough to deal with as is. Possible, but needs some tweaks.
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Stephen Foulk
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Too early to start fiddling with the core rules IMHO... I see your reasoning but I won't be trying it any time soon.
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Dave Weiss
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superdupergeek wrote:
Pilots of a higher skill value move after those of a lower skill value. However, their superior pilot skills dont allow them any opportunity to react and out manoeuver lower skilled pilots as they are compelled complete the exact manoeuver selected in the Planning Phase irrespective of what they see the lower skilled pilots do before them.


The problem is that you are envisioning all these fighters actually taking turns. That's not happening. They are all flying and firing at relatively the same moments in time. We have to play the game in a certain order to replicate the actual battle.
Wedge isn't sitting in his X-Wing casually waiting for the Tie fighters to all fly around before he decides on where to fly and what to do.

I posted this over on the FFG boards:

As for the greater skilled pilot losing his action as opposed to the rookies. This vexxed me for awhile, but I actually came across a thematic explanation that has worked for explaining it to others. The fighters are all moving in space at the same time, we just take turns moving them in the game for simplicity. The rookie pilots are dedicating themselves to an action before they really know whats going on. They aren't experienced enough to think on the fly (no pun intended). The experienced pilots are reacting to the situation presented to them during the battle, so they can react to other pilots actions. So far this explains the turn order system in place.

Academy Tie moves and picks focus hoping someone will fall into his firing arc so he can shoot them. Wedge either ends up with a firing solution on the tie and picks focus/target lock or end up in the Tie's firing arc and picks focus to survive the blast.

Rookie Xwing moves and picks focus as he has no idea if anyone will be in his arc or he'll be in someone else's arc. Mauler can then move and decide if he needs to roll out of the Rookie's arc, or into a firing position, or if rolling won't help, he can take an evade, or if he has a firing solution he can go with focus.

Now for the collisions, just expand the logic a bit. The rookie/academy pilot are dedicating themselves to a move and action. They have no concern about who's behind them, beside them, above them, or behind them. They are flying and deciding on an action and really hopeing it will be the right thing to do. Wedge/Mauler are also flying towards that same position and waiting until they line up a shot to decide on what action to perform when suddenly the collision alarms go off and an enemy ship flies right in front of them. Instead of target locking, rolling, evading, or focusing, the experienced pilot is forced to perform an evasive manuever to avoid collision. The manuever puts them in a different location than they expected and made a plan for. It also means instead of cooly gliding into an attack position and getting a target lock they had to do everything to avoid the collision. The rookie was already dedicated to his move and didn't have the piloting skill to react to and avoid the collision, so the more experienced pilot had to make the sacrifice to avoid the rookie.

Much like that rookie high school driver who ran the stop sign because he was too busy texting, you the experienced adult driver who was paying attention to traffic needs to avoid the collision instead of continuing through the intersection and changing the radio station as you had planned. The high school kid continued driving as he had planned and continued texting without any idea that he was nearly T-boned for running a stop sign.

Ta-da! Thematic explanation with real life analogy.

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Terence Lee
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we've actually played like this already. although I think the ship should still start between the front nubs but allow you to place the final position anywhere along the back of the base as long as the guide completely stays within the base.
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Paul DeStefano
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superdupergeek wrote:
Pilots of a higher skill value move after those of a lower skill value. However, their superior pilot skills dont allow them any opportunity to react and out manoeuver lower skilled pilots as they are compelled complete the exact manoeuver selected in the Planning Phase irrespective of what they see the lower skilled pilots do before them.


But they do react...

If two guys are set to be in the same spot, the better pilot keeps the other guy in his firing arc.
 
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Mark Shilling
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Hdnggrnchrg wrote:
Superior skill is already in them firing first and not being stuck in the front of a pileup. This would make Vader even more powerful, and he's hard enough to deal with as is. Possible, but needs some tweaks.


Yes - agreed, they can shoot first but to me it seems a little strange that they cannot manoeuver better.

It does make Vader (and all pilots) more manoeuverable and higher skilled pilots will benefit most but... that is the point.

If you do not have a target in firing range/arc, your superior pilot skills bring you no advantage that turn - I guess that is what didnt feel right to me and what I was trying to address.

I hear your concerns regarding balance but dont think this will tip things too far towards favouring one pilot or 'side'.
 
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Mark Shilling
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Wo, thats a lot of quick responses while I was typing out my reply (above)!!


Geosphere wrote:

But they do react...

If two guys are set to be in the same spot, the better pilot keeps the other guy in his firing arc.


But doesnt the fact that their bases would be touching prevent them from firing?
 
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Mark Shilling
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tlee33 wrote:
we've actually played like this already. although I think the ship should still start between the front nubs but allow you to place the final position anywhere along the back of the base as long as the guide completely stays within the base.


Id be interested to know how it worked out for you....

Were there any detrimental balance effects on the game play?
 
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Bob Smithy

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superdupergeek wrote:
Wo, thats a lot of quick responses while I was typing out my reply (above)!!


Geosphere wrote:

But they do react...

If two guys are set to be in the same spot, the better pilot keeps the other guy in his firing arc.


But doesnt the fact that their bases would be touching prevent them from firing?


Next turn, the dude in back just moves forward 1.
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Greg Lott
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Why? Casualties already seem to tally in order of initiative. Why make the low initiative pilots worse than they already are?

Do the Academy Rookies really seem overpowered to you? Is Wedge not already kicking enough arse?
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superdupergeek wrote:
...What do you think?


I like the idea generally but think it would be better as a Skill (Medal) Upgrade than a blanket ability.

Of course, you can make it a house-rule with your friends at your table, play it through a bunch of games, and then report back the pros and cons of its use.
 
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Brent Lloyd
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superdupergeek wrote:
Pilots of a higher skill value move after those of a lower skill value. However, their superior pilot skills dont allow them any opportunity to react and out manoeuver lower skilled pilots as they are compelled complete the exact manoeuver selected in the Planning Phase irrespective of what they see the lower skilled pilots do before them.

What do you think?


I agree, the only real advantage to superior Rebel pilots is they fire first, there is no benefit to moving after the maneuvers have been planned. The TIE fighters who can do a barrel roll after seeing the weaker pilot positions do have an advantage.

Your suggestion of ignoring the guide bumps is simple, elegant and (in my opinion) brilliant. I will be giving this a try.

Peace
 
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Jeremy Steward
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I agree, i dislike that lower skilled pilots have the ability to cause high skilled pilots to lose an action if they are destined to occupy the same space.

I actually tested higher skilled pilots moving first, but that makes target locking much harder and screws over builds relying on turn 2 missiles/torps.

So i tested modifying the game phases: Planning Phase; Movement in decendingorder; actions in ascending order; Combat in decending order. I quite liked it. It changed the dynamics a small amount since all actions aredone after all movements. Changing gameplay rules isnt my favorite thing to do, and im not sure if the game as a whole needs such a change. But it did feel like the same game and it felt like a more logical thematic game.

As for the OP, where is the cutoff between "high skill" and "low skill". Also i think i agree that while i like the rule, it would be better an an ability card.
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Tony
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While I agree it would be tough to fix at this point, I like the spirit of the OP. As things are a lower skill pilot has the ability to make a higher skill pilot lose his action (but less likely to happen the other way around unless YOU plan way ahead... and you are you and not your pilot).
 
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Christopher Islaub
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This is one of those rules that I've been having a bit of an issue with. I'm not sure I understand the logic behind the fact that the "more" skilled pilot is punished while the "less" skilled pilot is not... well, that's not entirely correct. Neither can fire at each other. I get that.

But the lower-skilled pilot has taken an action (focus, evade, whatever) that could very well (in the case of evade) mean the difference between life and death if others (not in base-to-base contact) can engage. And the more-skilled pilot gets no such action. If we assume that all movement is technically simultaneous -- as is the plotting of moves -- why should one pilot be punished and the other not?

Sure... if the "more" skilled pilot purposefully crashed his star-fighter into another star-fighter... then he would be getting what he deserved. But that's not what happens. His move was plotted at the same time as the lower-skilled mook. The lower-skilled mook who is now harder to hit because he evaded.

It just doesn't make sense to me.

As I think it would be unwieldy to go back and remove the lower-skilled pilot's action, I've decided that simply allowing the higher-skilled pilot to take his action (maybe only an evade... even makes some sense if one considers that they're doing his best to not crash into another) might be a simple solution.

What are your thoughts?

[EDIT] Removed silly pronoun game. Apologies.
 
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