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So in our quests, especially with the appraisal skill, our search deck would often get shuffled. Once it was even shuffled twice! This raised the question of whether or not the treasure chest would be re-shuffled, so I sent the question to FFG to see what the response was.

I was surprised to find that if the deck is depleted, you do not re-shuffle the deck. I sent another email to confirm, but I guess if you appraise too liberally, you could actually end up with very few items from the quest and many useless search tokens!


Q: If the item search deck is depleted, do we simply reshuffle the discarded item cards to draw from? Such as discarded cards from appraise and any resolved "nothing" or "treasure chest" cards?

A: The Search deck is reshuffled at the end of every quest. It is not reshuffled during a quest.
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Darren Nakamura
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Interesting. I personally would have ruled that resolved Treasure Chest and Nothing don't get shuffled back in during a quest, but I would have expected that cards discarded via Appraisal would have. I guess I would have been wrong. Thieves out there need to be careful with their Appraisal now!
 
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Dexter345 wrote:
Interesting. I personally would have ruled that resolved Treasure Chest and Nothing don't get shuffled back in during a quest, but I would have expected that cards discarded via Appraisal would have. I guess I would have been wrong. Thieves out there need to be careful with their Appraisal now!


Yeah, I can see arguments both ways for re-shuffling the nothing and treasure chest (it's used when you draw it, so you wouldn't reshuffle, but on the other hand, it's discarded, which is what happens to cards you appraise).

But to not reshuffle anything? That really hurts the appraise skill! For campaigns, I always would've thought of it as a guaranteed ability to gain after the intro quest, but now I'm not so sure. It's still decent, but so much easier to misuse now.
 
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How many cards are in the search deck? I thought there were 15... are there ever encounters with more than 4 search tokens? (my group is only up to the interlude.) So you'd only shuffle if you literally appraised every single card... unless (as seems likely) I'm wrong about the # of cards in the deck, # of tokens in later scenarios, or both.
 
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There are only twelve cards in the search deck. Most quests have eight search tokens (when playing with four Heroes). If you used Appraisal on every search token, you'd run out of cards for the last two search tokens.

I'm not sure why you would use Appraisal that often, though. I personally would only ever use it for the Nothing draw, unless we just really really needed a health potion for whatever reason.
 
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12 search cards, and no more than 4 search tokens per encounter (that will get you a search card), for 8 total. But when one player has greedy and appraise, that player is usually the one searching in our group.

Also, the time we went through the deck almost three times was when we got at least 3 search items on the way to the quest. We were very lucky. We unfortunately had bad results on the travel card where every hero has the potential to draw a search card.
 
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Dexter345 wrote:
I'm not sure why you would use Appraisal that often, though. I personally would only ever use it for the Nothing draw, unless we just really really needed a health potion for whatever reason.


When we were playing with treasure chests getting reshuffled in, it was worth it to appraise everything to get the chest twice.

Also, if we didn't need items, we'd appraise to get things worth at least 50 gp. Otherwise we'd appraise for something very useful such as a stamina potion.
 
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amoshias wrote:
How many cards are in the search deck? I thought there were 15... are there ever encounters with more than 4 search tokens? (my group is only up to the interlude.) So you'd only shuffle if you literally appraised every single card... unless (as seems likely) I'm wrong about the # of cards in the deck, # of tokens in later scenarios, or both.


There are (usually) only a max of 4 search tokens per encounter, but FFG's answer was that the search deck is only reshuffled at the end of the quest (the quest is both encounters together.)

There are 12 cards in the search deck, so you'll run dry after 6 search tokens if you appraise everything.

I am also surprised by FFG's answer, but I don't necessarily object to it. After all, if your thief appraises enough to run through the whole deck, then - in a 3 or 4 hero game - your party is guaranteed to find the Treasure Chest in every quest (along with a decent pile of coin for whatever else you end up keeping.) That's not nothing, considering the amount of gear handed out per quest has been deliberately reduced in 2E.

Also, I'm reasonably certain new search cards will get added to the deck in future expansions, so over time the problem will be less apparent.
 
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The problem with Appraising everything in order to run through the deck to get the Treasure Chest is that you may discard something marginally useful (a Stamina Potion, for instance) and draw the Nothing. I wouldn't risk it unless we already saw the Nothing come out first.

And even then, with (usually) 8 Search tokens per encounter, I would only use Appraisal four times at most, given this ruling on how to use the Search deck.
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Dexter345 wrote:
The problem with Appraising everything in order to run through the deck to get the Treasure Chest is that you may discard something marginally useful (a Stamina Potion, for instance) and draw the Nothing. I wouldn't risk it unless we already saw the Nothing come out first.

And even then, with (usually) 8 Search tokens per encounter, I would only use Appraisal four times at most, given this ruling on how to use the Search deck.


I've just started playing a 2 player game (where getting the nothing card is a bigger deal than with more heroes) and I've been appraising every time - I have had the nothing card turn up in a quest when I did an appraisal - even though that happened I still ended up better off than if I'd been using it sparingly
 
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It is really ridiculous how much worse the Thief is than the Treasure Hunter... (They both have the same ability, but the Treasure Hunter's ability lets you look at the top 2 cards, choose one, and then choose if the other should go on the top or bottom of the deck.)
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