Recommend
6 
 Thumb up
 Hide
38 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

Mice and Mystics» Forums » Rules

Subject: Surge Minions rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
bob atkins
United States
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
when a surge occurs and the new minions are added at the bottom of the initiative track, do they get a turn that round or not? what if the card that is taking it's turn is currently the last card on the track?

i think the answer is yes, because the rules don't state anywhere that we should skip them, they merely state that we should add them to the bottom of the track. and following rules for a round, a round is only over once the last card on the track has taken a turn.

this brings up another question, which is when exactly does a surge occur, during the active cards turn(as you roll the cheese then you would then need to add the cheese to the wheel, which then tells you to trigger a surge), or after it? or does the surge occur directly after combat ends? or at some other time completely?


I want to be sure, so I'm posting these questions.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ray Greenley
United States
Harleysville
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
badge
Greetings Commander
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Some good questions. My guess is:

The surge minion does get a turn that round. I think the surge would be resolved during the enemy turn in which it happened, so the surge minion would be slotted appropriately for the last turn of that round.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ken Marley
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Ray is correct.

Surges happen when they happen.

Place the minions at the end of the track.

If they are next they go next.

If they are last they go last.

Just continue to the next iniative spot.

If the surge happens due to no minions on the board, then I think the minions get placed last, and then we start with initiative spot 1, but that is the only bit I am not 100% on.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
bob atkins
United States
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
youperguy wrote:
If the surge happens due to no minions on the board, then I think the minions get placed last, and then we start with initiative spot 1, but that is the only bit I am not 100% on.


I would think this too given that the mouses turn has to end, and whenever the last mouses turn ends, so does the round. I think in this case it occurs in between rounds. however, I'm not sure on this either. An official answer would be nice for this question.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jerry Hawthorne
United States
dallas
Texas
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
When a surge happens, if that surge brought new minions, add the minion initiative card(s) to the bottom of the initiative track and simply continue playing. The new minions take their turn when their initiative card comes up in the order. So if the surge occurs when the first card on the track is taking a turn, the new minions will not get a chance to act for a while as all of the above cards get a chance to go first.

If a surge occurs and it brings new minions whose card is already on the track, you don't even need to add a card, just place the minions and continue playing. Let's say there are 3 rats on the board and, when the rats are taking their turn, the second rat to activate somehow causes a surge. You check the story book for any special surges, or check the encounter card. Lets say the surge brings 2 more rats. Just place the new rats and continue taking the rat turn, even moving and attacking with the newly placed rats.

NOTE: I have adjusted my answers to this series of questions
11 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ken Marley
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Jerry,
If a surge happens due to no minions on the tile after the last mice goes, I assume the order of events happens like this:

1) Place Minions
2) Place minion initiative card in last slot.
3) The first mouse in the initiative order goes first.

instead of this:

1) Place Minions
2) Place minion initiative card in last slot.
3) The minions go first.


Thanks,
Ken

2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Warren Smith
Canada
Calgary
Alberta
flag msg tools
badge
[Even] in their poverty, they referred to their garden of necessity as if it were a hobby.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm thinking that even if the trigger was no minions on the board, the procedure for resolving surges would be the same. This ensures that the party keeps moving through the adventure and doesn't hang around in one spot too long. My two cents.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
bob atkins
United States
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
Much thanks for the answers Jerry. However, I still am confused on one thing.

Assume a surge adds a new card to the bottom of the track, like a spider for example. If you got this surge because you had no minions on the track and had to add a cheese, does this minion get a turn before the round ends?

As Ken pointed out, we could either let the minions take a turn, or not let them(start a new round). the real question i believe is, is the round over by the time these new minions enter or not.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jerry Hawthorne
United States
dallas
Texas
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
After the last mouse on the initiative track takes its turn, if there are no minions on the board, add a cheese to the minion wheel. If this causes a surge which brings new minions, add their initiative card to the bottom of the track and continue playing. This means that the new card would be next to take a turn before the round ends.

Some boss minions add more than one card. When this happens, the first card added to the bottom of the track is considered an ambush, and so moves up from the bottom and amount of spaces on the track equal to the number result on one action die, then the other card is placed at the bottom of the track. So in this case, only 1 of the boss minion's cards would activate before the end of the round.


Here is the rulebook quote:

Quote:
If no minion cards are on the initiative track:
Take the initiative cards for each mouse and each
minion type that are going to be on the board at the
start of that encounter and shuffle them together to
create an initiative deck. Then, one at a time, take each
of the cards from the initiative deck and place them face
up along the initiative track that runs down the side of
the story control board. Place the first card on the
1 spot, the second on the 2 spot, and so on until all cards
have been placed.

12 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ken Marley
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks Jerry.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
bob atkins
United States
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
Thanks again Jerry.

I thought that their was turn is skipped because it says once the last card has taken a turn, the round ends. And you are supposed to add the cheese after the mouse has taken it's turn, which would mean all cards on the track have taken a turn. guess it's just a special circumstance, or too detailed rules interaction for me to comprehend.

I guess that the step of checking for minion cards on the track would still need to be done before a round is over, meaning that the minions added by a surge would still be part of the round. makes sense now that i think about it.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gerardo Gomez
Spain
Palma de mallorca
Baleares
flag msg tools
Hi Jerry. I'm a little confused after your last answer (probably because of not being a native speaker), as I understood from page 7 of the rulebook that, afeter a surge caused because of no minions on the board, you would reset the initiative track, as it is writen:

Quote:
If no minion cards are on the initiative track:
Take the initiative cards for each mouse and each minion type that are going to be on the board at the start of that encounter and shuffle them together to create an initiative deck. Then, one at a time, take each of the cards from the initiative deck and place them face up along the initiative track that runs down the side of the story control board. Place the first card on the 1 spot, the second on the 2 spot, and so on until all cards have been placed


My understanding was that in a case like this we would just reset the track mixing mice and minions, and start next round from position one, instead of just adding the minions at the end of the track. From your words I get it's not like that, but I fail to see why would this reseting rule not apply in this case. Did I misunderstand anything?
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jerry Hawthorne
United States
dallas
Texas
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
WeeLittlePuppetMan wrote:
Hi Jerry. I'm a little confused after your last answer (probably because of not being a native speaker), as I understood from page 7 of the rulebook that, afeter a surge caused because of no minions on the board, you would reset the initiative track, as it is writen:

Quote:
If no minion cards are on the initiative track:
Take the initiative cards for each mouse and each minion type that are going to be on the board at the start of that encounter and shuffle them together to create an initiative deck. Then, one at a time, take each of the cards from the initiative deck and place them face up along the initiative track that runs down the side of the story control board. Place the first card on the 1 spot, the second on the 2 spot, and so on until all cards have been placed


My understanding was that in a case like this we would just reset the track mixing mice and minions, and start next round from position one, instead of just adding the minions at the end of the track. From your words I get it's not like that, but I fail to see why would this reseting rule not apply in this case. Did I misunderstand anything?
Oh my goodness, you are so correct. I should take more time when answering questions. Thank you, yes the new minion would create a reset of the initiative track. In just a minute I will go beck and edit my answers so this thread doesn't become confusing. Sorry everyone.

Here is the rulebook quote:

Quote:
If no minion cards are on the initiative track:
Take the initiative cards for each mouse and each
minion type that are going to be on the board at the
start of that encounter and shuffle them together to
create an initiative deck. Then, one at a time, take each
of the cards from the initiative deck and place them face
up along the initiative track that runs down the side of
the story control board. Place the first card on the
1 spot, the second on the 2 spot, and so on until all cards
have been placed.
12 
 Thumb up
1.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
bob atkins
United States
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
Wow, thats a twist if I ever saw one. so a random set-up for next round eh? I was assuming random set-up of the initiative was only intended to be used for setting up a new tile, but i guess it's also used for this as well. very weird.

I would also assume that in this case, the round automatically ends.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jerry Hawthorne
United States
dallas
Texas
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yes, you begin a new round.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian Beyke
United States
Louisville
KY
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Which, if Collin isn't first, would be an instance of another "born to lead" being triggered in the same room, correct?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jerry Hawthorne
United States
dallas
Texas
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
BTBAM wrote:
Which, if Collin isn't first, would be an instance of another "born to lead" being triggered in the same room, correct?
yes
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tom Howard
United States
Marina del Rey
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
BTBAM wrote:
Which, if Collin isn't first, would be an instance of another "born to lead" being triggered in the same room, correct?


Yeah, I was about to ask a similar question... His ability reads:
"When placing cards on the initiative track, if Prince Collin is not in the first initiative spot, immediately add 1 cheese to his stash."

As written, it seems like his ability should trigger any time cards are placed on the initiative track. Say, for example, there are minions still on the tile and a surge triggers, which adds a new minion card to the track. I could be mistaken, but that satisfies the condition for Collin's ability to trigger. (i.e.: It doesn't say 'when Collin is placed on the initiative track, etc...')
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian Beyke
United States
Louisville
KY
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
GeckoTH wrote:
BTBAM wrote:
Which, if Collin isn't first, would be an instance of another "born to lead" being triggered in the same room, correct?


Yeah, I was about to ask a similar question... His ability reads:
"When placing cards on the initiative track, if Prince Collin is not in the first initiative spot, immediately add 1 cheese to his stash."

As written, it seems like his ability should trigger any time cards are placed on the initiative track. Say, for example, there are minions still on the tile and a surge triggers, which adds a new minion card to the track. I could be mistaken, but that satisfies the condition for Collin's ability to trigger. (i.e.: It doesn't say 'when Collin is placed on the initiative track, etc...')


I could be incorrect in this, but every time I played it was not triggered whenever new minions were added to the initiative track. I haven't gone back through the rule book looking to see if they make a disciplined usage in wording, but I think there is a difference in placing cards on the inititive track (whenever new order is established) and adding cards to the initiative track (surges or triggered minions while leaving current initiatve track in place)
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tom Howard
United States
Marina del Rey
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
That's a fair point. I could see it going either way.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jerry Hawthorne
United States
dallas
Texas
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Collin's power activates every time you have an initiative reset, not when simply adding more minions to the track.

Lily's preemptive shot ability can be used any time new minions are added provided she has the cheese. This can be right in conjunction with a reset, or just when new minions re added, but she can only use it once even if multiple cards or minions are added. So lets say 3 roaches and 3 rats are added to the initiative track, at that time she can spend the cheese to take one shot at one of he minions just added.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Warren Smith
Canada
Calgary
Alberta
flag msg tools
badge
[Even] in their poverty, they referred to their garden of necessity as if it were a hobby.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Ok... Now I'm Confused
The quote from the rules about "If no minion cards are on the initiative track" is on page 7 under the heading Determining Initiative Order. What follows under that heading is that initiative order is determined at the start of a new chapter and each time an encounter card is revealed. What does that have to do with surges?

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tom Howard
United States
Marina del Rey
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Jerry, once again, thank you so much for being so active in these forums! thumbsupthumbsup

2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
bob atkins
United States
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
h00sha wrote:
The quote from the rules about "If no minion cards are on the initiative track" is on page 7 under the heading Determining Initiative Order. What follows under that heading is that initiative order is determined at the start of a new chapter and each time an encounter card is revealed. What does that have to do with surges?



because it tells you how to place their card on the initiative track when they are brought in from a surge(or other event like exploring a new tile).
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Warren Smith
Canada
Calgary
Alberta
flag msg tools
badge
[Even] in their poverty, they referred to their garden of necessity as if it were a hobby.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks for the response...

The part where I think I disagree (respectfully) with Jerry's double think is that the quoted section of the rules tells us what to do when determining initiative, not when to determine initiative. I liked the designer's first responses better as those made more sense to me.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.