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Legendary: A Marvel Deck Building Game» Forums » General

Subject: Duplicate villains??? rss

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Todd
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I am becoming less interested in this game by the day.

People have already discussed the multiple Hero cards containing the same image. This seems like a missed opportunity for Upper Deck and I wish they had made a different choice.

However, the duplicate villain cards seems annoying. There is one scenario that involves villains escaping from prison. So I could capture the Green Goblin on my turn and then have the Green Goblin revealed on the next player's turn. shake

Upper Deck is used to the idea of selling to card collectors. People who will buy multiple decks hoping to get a certain rare card.

It seems that Upper Deck developed this game with lots of expansions in mind and as a result they limited the number of unique cards to have the maximum number of expansions available for the future. I understand having multiple cards of Hydra agents, but if you have a group of Spider Villains you could easily have 10 or 15 unique villains in the base game. This will still leave several dozen Spider villains for future expansions.

They have a huge universe of characters to choose from, for the price I would like to see more unique cards in the game. I am disappointed.
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♫ Eric Herman ♫
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falcons wrote:
However, the duplicate villain cards seems annoying. There is one scenario that involves villains escaping from prison. So I could capture the Green Goblin on my turn and then have the Green Goblin revealed on the next player's turn.


Do the villains in comics really ever stay captured? I think, thematically, what's happening is that you deal the villain a blow of some kind, or even arrest them... but then they regain their strength or one of their allies breaks them free from prison and they can come back to cause trouble again.

To me, the only weird aspect would be if the same villain is in two different areas of the city at the same time (e.g., the sewers and the bridge).
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Wil
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I'm on the other side of the fence and in looking at all the heros, the villans, the twists, the unique abilities, the super strong theme, the solo play option, etc., and getting more excited by the day.

It really comes down to the point of the game being the game for me.

Sure, it would have been better with more art BUT that could have led to the focus of the game being a trading card game for fan boys and collectors which would have sucked.

If less unique art means the designer focussed on better game play, more play testing, more cards and customization, then I'm all for it. There seems to be a heck of a lot of game in the box and I'm excited by it.
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Bryan Lyons
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The way they did the art between common, uncommon, and rare is actually really cool for me. It's the same picture, but in varying degrees of "Extended Art."
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Todd
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The heroes are okay, but why all the duplicate villains? It seems wrong that I could have the same villains in multiple parts of the city.
 
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Erik Rodriguez
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I guess if that thematic aspect really bothered you then you could always take out all of the duplicates and add in an extra villain group (with duplicates removed from it as well).
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Matt Shinners
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I'm with you on this, Todd. I was excited for it. Then, the price came out. It was high, but I was getting a TON of cards. Now, I find out that the cards are mostly duplicates (there's what, 110 unique over ~500 cards?). I'll probably wait until it goes on clearance at B&N.
 
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Wil
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MattShinners wrote:
I'm with you on this, Todd. I was excited for it. Then, the price came out. It was high, but I was getting a TON of cards. Now, I find out that the cards are mostly duplicates (there's what, 110 unique over ~500 cards?). I'll probably wait until it goes on clearance at B&N.


Are you sure that many cards are duplicates? Based on what I've seen the art has varying levels of duplication but the card text varies on most cards so isn't there really a much higher number of unique cards?



 
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Erik Rodriguez
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According to a post in this thread there are approximately 127 unique cards in the game.
 
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J Brenner
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Falcons wrote:
I am becoming less interested in this game by the day.

People have already discussed the multiple Hero cards containing the same image. This seems like a missed opportunity for Upper Deck and I wish they had made a different choice.

However, the duplicate villain cards seems annoying. There is one scenario that involves villains escaping from prison. So I could capture the Green Goblin on my turn and then have the Green Goblin revealed on the next player's turn. shake

Upper Deck is used to the idea of selling to card collectors. People who will buy multiple decks hoping to get a certain rare card.

It seems that Upper Deck developed this game with lots of expansions in mind and as a result they limited the number of unique cards to have the maximum number of expansions available for the future. I understand having multiple cards of Hydra agents, but if you have a group of Spider Villains you could easily have 10 or 15 unique villains in the base game. This will still leave several dozen Spider villains for future expansions.

They have a huge universe of characters to choose from, for the price I would like to see more unique cards in the game. I am disappointed.


I do encourage you to actually play the game to understand how the mechanic works. It may not be for you or it could surprise you. Remember, you didn't know you liked Lobster until you tried it. Unless of course you had a horrible reaction and almost died from shellfish...

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♫ Eric Herman ♫
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Falcons wrote:
The heroes are okay, but why all the duplicate villains? It seems wrong that I could have the same villains in multiple parts of the city.


You could assume that it's not the same unique villain, but underlings/henchmen of that villain. I know there are also "henchmen" in the game who are considered villains, but think of the dupe villains as henchmen doing the direct bidding of that particular villain.

Or, maybe house rule it so that if a dupe unique villain comes out into the city, draw another Villain card until you don't get a duplicate (I think duplicate henchmen are fine, though, because they're more generic), and then shuffle the duplicate unique villain(s) back into the deck.
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Jack Francisco
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This has gone from a "maybe" to a "no way in hell" for me.
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Carlos Alves
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Just use your imagination. These villians may be clones or other villains from other Earths.

But i agree with MattShinners, the designer could use more villains on this game. Spiderman, deadpool , x-men, Avengers gave more villians that the current.

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Wil
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senorcoo wrote:
This has gone from a "maybe" to a "no way in hell" for me


Wow, wild. Over having repetitive art work?

I thought gaming was about the game itself. For example, take a look at a game like Glory to Rome which has terrible art but is a great game. I couldn't imagine hell no-ing it just for bad art.

In this case, the art is actually outstanding, it's just redundant which is actually the norm for deck building games (Dominion, Thunderstone, etc). Heck even games like Summoner Wars do the same thing and re-use the art within your deck and on the playing field. In fact, Legendary may even have more unique art in its box then all of the card games I just mentioned.

I really think this game is worth trying before axing over not having a six digit art budget on its initial release. To me it still looks like the best superhero game yet AND possibly even a Thunderstone and Ascension trumper as well.
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Matthew McFarland
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I gotta say that I'm really looking forward to this release and will eventually pick it up, but am still extremely disapointed with the repetitive artwork. I mean, if Thunderstone had repeat art like this it would be like your hero, their weapon, their light source and a special ability all having the same thing on them.

There are 14 cards with four degrees of rarity per hero deck, why not at least have four different poses? Would it have been that much more to double the art on the villians that it made sense to? In the end, it's not a huge deal, but it's enough to temper my excitement and make this not a day one purchase. After all, it is a comic game, and a lot of the reason I'm drawn to comics is the art.

Again, I'm not saying it's a bad game and I still plan on buying it at some point, but with the artwork that's there looking so amazing, it's just a let down there's not more of it.
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Todd
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I would love to try it, just no going to preorder the game. For the price I would want more unique heroes and villains. Plus not sure if the game will play well using random heroes an villains....example, the Blob can only be defeated by an X-Men. Will try before I buy.
 
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J Brenner
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Falcons wrote:
I would love to try it, just no going to preorder the game. For the price I would want more unique heroes and villains. Plus not sure if the game will play well using random heroes an villains....example, the Blob can only be defeated by an X-Men. Will try before I buy.


Thats all I ask.
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Erik Rodriguez
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senorcoo wrote:
This has gone from a "maybe" to a "no way in hell" for me.


For every copy you don't buy, I'll buy two!

Just kidding
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wgerken wrote:
senorcoo wrote:
This has gone from a "maybe" to a "no way in hell" for me


Wow, wild. Over having repetitive art work?

I thought gaming was about the game itself. For example, take a look at a game like Glory to Rome which has terrible art but is a great game. I couldn't imagine hell no-ing it just for bad art.

In this case, the art is actually outstanding, it's just redundant which is actually the norm for deck building games (Dominion, Thunderstone, etc). Heck even games like Summoner Wars do the same thing and re-use the art within your deck and on the playing field. In fact, Legendary may even have more unique art in its box then all of the card games I just mentioned.

I really think this game is worth trying before axing over not having a six digit art budget on its initial release. To me it still looks like the best superhero game yet AND possibly even a Thunderstone and Ascension trumper as well.


Well, as a solo/co-op card game it will naturally be compared to LOTR, which has excellent and varied art for both the player and enemy decks, and strong mechanics So there is no reason to drop the ball in one dept. to pick it up in another, IMO.
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Wil
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nssxxx wrote:
Well, as a solo/co-op card game it will naturally be compared to LOTR, which has excellent and varied art for both the player and enemy decks, and strong mechanics So there is no reason to drop the ball in one dept. to pick it up in another, IMO.


I agree with your point but sincerely think that this is more of an economic decision then a ball dropping decision as I'm sure that Marvel is an expensive IP with a lot of hands on when it comes to art, more so than most IPs since art is a main aspect of comics.

My key issue and surprise is how some of the other potential buyers are being so harsh on judging a book exclusively on its cover so to speak, especially when deck builders are loaded with redundant art (even LOTR since you play with multiple copies in your deck, but I agree that it's the top of the lot in unique art).

If the game is great, it's great. Sure, if a great game has more art / better components it can be even great-er, but great is still great.

I'm still quite excited and who knows if it takes off and gets the support it needs, maybe they'll be able to have deluxe editions. Marvel is definitely a company that thrives on that themselves.
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J Brenner
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nssxxx wrote:
wgerken wrote:
senorcoo wrote:
This has gone from a "maybe" to a "no way in hell" for me


Wow, wild. Over having repetitive art work?

I thought gaming was about the game itself. For example, take a look at a game like Glory to Rome which has terrible art but is a great game. I couldn't imagine hell no-ing it just for bad art.

In this case, the art is actually outstanding, it's just redundant which is actually the norm for deck building games (Dominion, Thunderstone, etc). Heck even games like Summoner Wars do the same thing and re-use the art within your deck and on the playing field. In fact, Legendary may even have more unique art in its box then all of the card games I just mentioned.

I really think this game is worth trying before axing over not having a six digit art budget on its initial release. To me it still looks like the best superhero game yet AND possibly even a Thunderstone and Ascension trumper as well.


Well, as a solo/co-op card game it will naturally be compared to LOTR, which has excellent and varied art for both the player and enemy decks, and strong mechanics So there is no reason to drop the ball in one dept. to pick it up in another, IMO.



I have to chime in and shed some light here as I have been reading these boards for some time and need to spread facts. Marvel and Upper Deck worked very closely on every aspect of the art, it was scrutinized heavily by Marvel and they are very happy, as are we, with the final product.

The fact is we have a budget for our products, since this is a new game for UD, we didn't have "Unlimited budget" like we did in the old days, it's unfortunate, but true. When the game takes off, which I believe it will, I can then justify increasing budget to enhance future sets in a way that I feel delivers a more robust experience for the players. This can be a variety of things mind you.

I assure you our decisions in no way reflect "Dropping the ball", as we are all gamers here and we want to make a game that we want to play, not just sell to all of you. That said, economics are what they are and as the man behind the curtain, I need to hit maintain our given budget or else there wont even be a game to talk about on these forums, its business 101.

Ughhh, I hate the corporate speech so lets get back to some positive game play discussion!

Cheers.
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Rodney "Watch It Played" Smith
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Sure. Played 5 player last night for the first time and we got wrecked by Dr. Doom and the Civil War Scheme. All new players except for myself and everyone wanted to play again.
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J Brenner
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That is a beater of a scheme,especially if people keep recruiting heroes. Glad Doom got his licks in, I haven't heard too much chatter about him yet.
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Brenzor wrote:

I have to chime in and shed some light here as I have been reading these boards for some time and need to spread facts. Marvel and Upper Deck worked very closely on every aspect of the art, it was scrutinized heavily by Marvel and they are very happy, as are we, with the final product.

The fact is we have a budget for our products, since this is a new game for UD, we didn't have "Unlimited budget" like we did in the old days, it's unfortunate, but true. When the game takes off, which I believe it will, I can then justify increasing budget to enhance future sets in a way that I feel delivers a more robust experience for the players. This can be a variety of things mind you.


We all know that Marvel isn't cheap with their licenses, but 127 original cards out of 500 for an MSRP of $60 seems a bit out of whack to me. I guess the board costs a bit as well? Then you say that more card variance will come afterwards if the game is successful and you can justify upping the budget? Wonder what the next set of cards will cost.

I will say this, I love the artwork that I've seen from the game, no denying that it looks nice and the game seems to play well enough, but I can't grasp the cost/reward ratio in my head here.

I do look forward to seeing what Rodney says about the game if he gets to do a video for it, that guy has sold me more games than I care to admit at this point.
 
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Pelvidar wrote:
Sure. Played 5 player last night for the first time and we got wrecked by Dr. Doom and the Civil War Scheme. All new players except for myself and everyone wanted to play again.


Great to hear! "Let's play again" is one of my favorite phrases to hear.

Any chance that you'll be doing a Watch it Played video?

Your series is outstanding and has helped me with many game decisions. I'm already sold on Legendary, just a bit anxious to see more since I don't have a copy myself yet.

Thanks!

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