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Battlestar Galactica: The Board Game – Pegasus Expansion» Forums » Rules

Subject: Verdict of Guilty Crisis rss

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Cal Corum
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This just came up in BSG 310; if the current player is the (pre-execution) Admiral does the "discard 3 card" portion of the Crisis have any effect? Or would the discard apply to the new Admiral?
 
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Ossian Grr aka "Josh"
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It actually came up in BSG 298, not 310
And in practice it won't matter, because the 2 other humans in play are Baltar and Roslin, who are third-to-last and last in the line of succession. Only if the former Admiral chooses Tory will this be remotely relevant.

On the other hand, an answer to the question in general would be nice to have, in case it makes a difference in the future.
 
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Todd Warnken
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In my opinion the discards are from the Admiral who made the choice on the card so it would have no effect if the current player was the Admiral.
 
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Carl Bussema
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What's the exact wording on this?
 
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Cal Corum
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jozxyqk wrote:
It actually came up in BSG 298, not 310


Yeah...I realized I wrote that about ten minutes ago but considering the speed with which this forum responds to questions I knew I had no chance of correcting it!

jozxyqk wrote:
On the other hand, an answer to the question in general would be nice to have, in case it makes a difference in the future.


I agree completely. That's why I posted the question.
 
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Todd Warnken
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InfoCynic wrote:
What's the exact wording on this?


Admiral's Choice:

The current player is executed and the Admiral discards 3 Skill Cards.

OR

Damage Galactica twice
 
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Robert
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Follow-up question: Can you choose the first option when the Admiral doesn't have three cards to discard?
 
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Todd Warnken
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umbaci wrote:
Follow-up question: Can you choose the first option when the Admiral doesn't have three cards to discard?


Yes you can.
 
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Carl Bussema
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Resolve the steps in the order listed.

Step 1. The current player is executed (process an execution).
Step 2: The admiral (possibly a new player, possibly the just-executed player) discards 3 cards.
Step 3: Profit!
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Cal Corum
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I totally see what you're saying and acting in text order could make sense, but I was actually leaning the other way because, to me, it seems like the crisis wants the current player to be executed and the word 'and' makes me think the Admiral should discard at the "same time" as the execution which led me to believe the current (pre-execution) Admiral would have to discard.

Wow, that was one serious run on sentence...Sorry!
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Carl Bussema
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UFAQ tells us that we always apply steps in the order listed.

Q: If the "Code Blue" crisis fails, Dee is the current player, she's human, and morale is 3 (before applying the effects of the crisis), is the replacement character placed in the Brig or in that character's starting location? (thread)
A: (Corey, FFG, by way of DaveD): Apply the effects in the order listed. (I suspect that some will still question what that means, so I retain my original answer: first lose the morale. At the loss of this morale, Dee is executed, the new character is placed on the board (wherever is appropriate), titles are passed, the new character is still the current player (that hasn't changed) and therefore is moved to the brig.)

So again:
Execute the current player. Pass titles if necessary, etc. etc.
The current admiral (regardless of who it was before) discards 3 cards (if he has any).
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In theory, this would matter, but since it practice, it won't, why bother?

case 1
current player dies, discards his hand of skill cards
Then the admiral, same char, discards 3 skill cards (has no skill cards at this point)
chooses new char or goes to cylon land

case 2
current player dies, discards his hand of skill cards
chooses new char or goes to cylon land
Then the admiral, same char, discards 3 skill cards, but newly choosen characters start off with no skill cards anyways.
Revealed cylons are immune to crisis card effects AND won't have any skill cards from being recently executed.
 
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Ossian Grr aka "Josh"
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ackmondual, you are missing the case where it would be relevant:

* current player dies, discards his hand of skillcards
* chooses new character
* a different player's character is first-in-line for Admiral.
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Robert Stewart
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InfoCynic wrote:
UFAQ tells us that we always apply steps in the order listed.

Q: If the "Code Blue" crisis fails, Dee is the current player, she's human, and morale is 3 (before applying the effects of the crisis), is the replacement character placed in the Brig or in that character's starting location? (thread)
A: (Corey, FFG, by way of DaveD): Apply the effects in the order listed. (I suspect that some will still question what that means, so I retain my original answer: first lose the morale. At the loss of this morale, Dee is executed, the new character is placed on the board (wherever is appropriate), titles are passed, the new character is still the current player (that hasn't changed) and therefore is moved to the brig.)

So again:
Execute the current player. Pass titles if necessary, etc. etc.
The current admiral (regardless of who it was before) discards 3 cards (if he has any).


Note that this conflicts with the rule (I forget whether it's from Pegasus or Exodus) that the last step in an execution is to end the turn if the current player was executed - making the official sequence something like: do stuff, end the turn, do something to the current player (who is the same player despite the turn having ended...)

On the other hand, ending the turn is a bit shaky at the best of times - it seems to mean: "don't do any more turn-based actions this turn" rather than "turn marker moves on and next player becomes current player, and starts by drawing their skill cards" - you still resolve anything that's waiting to happen...
 
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Carl Bussema
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Personally I treat the"end turn"rule as a mistake, since it's so often wrong.
 
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jozxyqk wrote:
ackmondual, you are missing the case where it would be relevant:

* current player dies, discards his hand of skillcards
* chooses new character
* a different player's character is first-in-line for Admiral.
?? Still not seeing how the timing of skill card discards are relevant towards another character line of succession.
 
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Ossian Grr aka "Josh"
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ackmondual wrote:
jozxyqk wrote:
ackmondual, you are missing the case where it would be relevant:

* current player dies, discards his hand of skillcards
* chooses new character
* a different player's character is first-in-line for Admiral.
?? Still not seeing how the timing of skill card discards are relevant towards another character line of succession.


* The game has Admiral Gaeta and non-Admiral Cain
* Cain has skill cards in her hand, and is not in the Brig.
* It is Gaeta's turn.
* The crisis Verdict of Guilty is drawn.
* Gaeta chooses "current player is executed and admiral discards 3 skill cards".
* Gaeta is current player. He gets executed.

The question is:

* Does Gaeta's player 'discard 3 cards' (a non-effect because he's going to have no cards anyway)?
* Or does Cain discard 3 cards because she instantly inherits the Admiral title from the execution?
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Carl Bussema
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Or C. Nobody discards because obviously the turn ends when you execute the current player (which would also mean the cylon ship activations on that card are meaningless )
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Mooseared Ferenczy
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I fully admit that what I am about to say come from days of playing Magic the Gathering and taking preliminary steps to judge that game. As such, my logic may not apply fully.
I tend to break sequences into sentences.
So 'Current player is executed and the Admiral discards 3 cards' would be read as happening all at once. So if the current player is the admiral, he/she would die AND discard, basically making the discards meaningless.
As opposed to:
'The current player is executed. The Admiral discards 3 cards.' where it is now more clear that you fully resolve the execution and then the admiral discards 3 cards.
As for the end the turn execution rule, I believe the way that it works is that the turn ends with the step you are on. So in this case you execute the current player, the admiral discards and then turn ends right there. No jump prep and ship activation. Or in the wacky case of Dee's crisis activating raiders that blow up the pop/morale ship, causing her drawback to activate, you execute Dee, finish the cylon ship activations for that turn, skip the prep for jump.
 
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Carl Bussema
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That's a Peagsus crisis card, isn't it?

It's important because Pegasus rules don't have that detail about ending the current turn during an execution of the current player.

By a strict reading, if you are playing an Exodus game, you should stop immediately after executing the current player. Full stop. No cylon ships, no jump, nada. EXCEPTION: If you play this crisis via Caprica via State of Emergency, finish the rest of the state of emergency. And then throw yourself out an airlock for making that happen.

If you are playing a Pegasus game, you don't end the turn on the execution, but you do AEIOL (sorry, couldn't make that a U, but I'm open to suggestions): Apply Effects In Order Listed. An execution is one effect. That happens in full. Then the admiral, whoever s/he may be, discards 3 cards (or the entire hand of 1 or 2 cards). Then Cylon ships, then jump.

I knew there was an answer other than "the designers really messed up on that one!" They just forgot about that particular card when designing Exodus and slipping in that rule about ending the current player's turn if s/he is executed.
 
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Mooseared Ferenczy
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I just reread the UFAQ and the example given, and yeah, I think I have to step away from my ruling. Carl's seems more what the designers intended. And I have no recollection how executions worked in Pegasus. I could've sworn they also ended the turn immediately, but it has been too long since I played without Exodus. I would argue that you still need to discard to the extent it is relevant. You would have to place ally and trauma if the current player died by encountering an ally.
 
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