Recommend
2 
 Thumb up
 Hide
14 Posts

BoardGameGeek» Forums » Gaming Related » Gaming Articles

Subject: Getting what you want versus supporting the hobby rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Michael Von Ahnen
United States
Dallas
Texas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
On one of my geeklists a got a comment that got me thinking. I asked for recommendations for OOP games that I was looking at on eBay and I got the comment that I should buy new games instead of OOP used games, because that the gaming community should support the current game companies instead of recirculating old games.

This got me thinking, why am I looking at games on eBay instead of first looking at games still in print? And my gut response is: I buy old out of print games because they are what I want. Which by association also means, the current game companies don't seem to be producing the games that I want.

I can't throw out these broad statements without some justification. My favorite games are the old tradition hex and counter wargames. For example, here are some of my favorite and most played games: Russian Campaign (AH version), Victory in the Pacific, Onslaught, Fortress Europa, World in Flames (5th Edition). In contrast, some of my less than favorite games are World in Flames (Final Edition), the new Russian Campaign (the L2 version), and Memoir '44. I own World in Flames, Final Edition and the others I have seen either in person or in advertising. What repels me from these seems to be the same things that attract other people to them, their look and feel of the components and the mapboards.

And to compound my problem, because these games have their counter packed to the gills with images and their maps are a rainbow of colors and artistic invention, they cost out the nose. Find me a game that does not cost on the far side of $50 and I will show you a fire sale. I know there are some games below that range, and those are the ones I am actively pursuing, but to get the same class of game (or just the same game reprinted) that was available during the hayday of Avalon Hill and SPI, you can approach $100. And what do you get game wise? A bunch of pretty counters that you have to look at twice to make sure you read them right, and a mapboard that swallows the counters in color.

I remember the release of "Squad Leader". It was decided then to put not only the required play information on the counter, but a cool looking picture, giving the game a "minitures feel". The intention and the result was to be able avoid to refering to endless charts and have all the information on the counter. Good idea in concept. But I feel the latest games take this many steps too far. It worked fine in Magic, but it gets distracting in wargames.

To boot, I see a lot of comments about the improvement of rules, going away from the in one persons words, the "Don Greenwood's 1.2.3.. format". You know what, when you need to find something in a long rule book, being able to look up section 1.2.3, it makes it easier. It would great to be able to memorize every rule to every game and not have to refer to them, but my 40-something brain has lost the capacity to do that, probably never had it. For games of the complexity of Monopoly, you can get away from an organized rule book, but for complicated games, I like the numbered referenced rulebook. It makes finding that particular rule that much easier.

So to some up, I don't necessarily feel inclined to buy from current games companies, just to support the hobby. I will buy from the ones that build a product that meets my wants in a game, and short of finding that, I will continue to buy the preowned games that do.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Slyvanian Frog
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Spot on. We see this far too often in both board games and computer games. This is capitalism. It is not my job to pay more money for your product, that I do not think is as good as other products. It is your job to design a better product, and make the price one that I as a consumer believe is worth the money. I've never understood the logic behind my owing the gaming industry anything. If you make something good and price it at an amount I believe is worth the hard time and effort I have to work to make that money, then I'll buy it. Otherwise, tough luck.

I have always found it insulting to be told I need to, "Support the industry." I don't see any game store owners discussing how they should really use my professional services more often because they need to support me lest I go away.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark Crane
United States
Orem
Utah
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
SlyFrog wrote:

I have always found it insulting to be told I need to, "Support the industry." I don't see any game store owners discussing how they should really use my professional services more often because they need to support me lest I go away.


Amen. Although game designing is an obscure occupation. Should we feel guilty for buying a good game from Hasbro rather than supporting a boutique designer?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
AxonDomini
United States
Smithtown
New York
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
While I, for one, love Memoir '44, if you don't then you certainly should not buy it. Nor do I think you should buy current games rather than OOP games simply to "support the industry". The industry should be supporting what players want, not the other way around.

In short, anyone who is trying to make you feel guilty over buying OOP games on e-bay is just plain silly. We vote with our dollars, that's how the free market works. And, hey, I don't think Days of Wonder will be suffer much if traditional hex and counter wargamers like yourself take your business elsewhere.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tim Thorp
United States
Granite Falls
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
"Come on! Come on! Come and get it, baby! Come on! I don't got all day! Come on! Come on! Come on you bastard! Come on, you too! Oh, you want some of this? "
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I buy what I want. Make a great game, and I'll buy it. If not, then I'll look for something out of print or used. Simple as that. I'm not going to support any industry that doesn't offer something I would want.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Kice
United States
Shorewood
Illinois
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Also - there are a lot of great games that are now out of print. Those of us who are late to the hobby need to buy them used or we'd just have to miss out.

Via the auction at GenCon, eBay, and here, I've been picking up all sorts of OOP games. Given the vast number of games that have come and gone before I got into collecting, there are way more games out of print than in so my purchases will almost always be slanted in that direction.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bill Herbst
United States
Sayville
New York
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I absolutely agree that you should buy games exclusively on the basis of what you want to play not to "support the gaming industry."

The idea that someone would choose to buy in print games rather than out of print games in order to help the industry is really one of the more absurd things I've heard on this site. By that logic, you should be sure to pay a few bucks over retail as well if you hear the game is selling poorly.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gone Fishing
United States
Unspecified
flag msg tools
But that isn't the half of it.

It's also your responsibility as a gamer to go door to door, like a Jehovah's Witness, to convert the unwashed masses into Hardcore Gamers.

No Man, Woman, or Child shall pass from this world without first having heard the message of the Board.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian Smith
United States
Perry Hall
Maryland
flag msg tools
IA!! IA!!
badge
FTAGHN!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
my 2 cents:

I think you should buy games based o the strength of the gameplay, the theme, the mechanics, etc. NOT just because they are new, to "support the industry". A better way to support the industry is to get new players playing, to make the media more popular, so that they have more customers.

That being said, you should at least consider currently in print games before buying, simply because they may be less expensive and easier to find. kind of the best of both worlds.

If you are a fan of the hex and counter thing, you could look into GMT games, as they try to do something similar, and are cheaper to get than shelling out tons of bucks on ebay for an old AH game.

In conclusion, buy the games you want, but be mindful of what you may have to go through to get what you want. Sometimes the path of least resistance is best, sometimes not.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark Drake
United States
Slidell
Louisiana
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Michael,

I am with you!

I buy games I want to actually play,not just to "keep the hobby alive."
That has been used too often as an excuse to promote release of inferior gaming products,IMHO (for what its worth.)

And I also prefer many of the old-school hex-and-counter type wargames due to the fact that many of those rulebooks were laid out in a logical progression.Even today,I can go to the ASL rulebook and find a particular rule in a section because of how well it is laid out.

So give me a great looking mapboard anyday with some nice color counters and logical rulebook anyday--not too much to ask in a wargame now,is it????

Mark Drake
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Atkins
United States
McCordsville
Indiana
flag msg tools
mb
One of the reasons that out of print games appeal to me is because I didn't have the time or money to get them when I was a young grognard. Now that I have more of both, I find myself wanting to go back and pick up some of the classics (like Ambush!) and try them out.

I suspect there are more like me, which is why game companies would be smart to make reprints a priority, if they have the money to get the licenses.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Atkins
United States
McCordsville
Indiana
flag msg tools
mb
Uh, the original poster (who made similar comments) was from Switzerland. So, you know, whatever.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robert Wesley
Nepal
Aberdeen
Washington
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mb
cdatkins wrote:
Uh, the original poster (who made similar comments) was from Switzerland. So, you know, whatever.

Well, I'm quite 'familiar' with this 'person', so I won't divulge his 'secret' *wink-wink* Now, I've been trying to infuse 'updates' FOR the 'ole skool' kinds myself, mainly to GET those BACK onto the 'gaming tables', without TOO much of a costly means for this. Sure, there's plenty of other current 'designs' that should be given a chance as well, yet that's NO reason to toss out the rest! Since the majority of today's 'n00b'-"grognard" doesn't have the vast experiences of the previously mentioned 'olde style' versions to 'encounter', then how else could they fully appreciate the spectrum of what there is out and about now-a-days? That is WHY I'd like to provide 'this' for their 'enlightenments'. I know that I am always on the 'look out' for whatever is the 'soup de jeur' in 'Con-Sims', while the COST is most often the "determining factor" in such, and I have to "pass". Seeing "the Russian Campaign" FLYING off into the 'priceless' category for ME, doesn't help matters along. I am very impressed with THAT, and for what they've 'done' in reviving it too, while I applaud them on others as well. Still, considering the 'product' from like "Columbia Games", or akin to them then it is beyond them~pricewise. As long as ANY there are able to PROVIDE, then there's the potential for ALL.

Here's a 'notion' for any WHO are truly 'interested' upon the matter. See if you can keep up.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Russell Gifford
United States
South Sioux City
Nebraska
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
Quote:
What repels me from these seems to be the same things that attract other people to them, their look and feel of the components and the mapboards.


Wow. And here I thought it was just me being reactionary.....

---Russ wow
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.