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Subject: BGG sticker program to promote better games. rss

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Darren M
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I was reading through a post discussing how to go about recommending "better game alternatives" to people looking at games like Monopoly/Trivial Pursuit/Risk in shops without sounding pushy or "geeky".

In the context of the recently discussed "BGG game awards":

Simple solution...Aldie and Derk need to transform their "BGG Game of the Year" award concept into a "BGG Top 300" sticker program. This would include the top 10% or so of the ranked games/expansions on BGG which seems like a pretty good variety of top rated games.

All the qualifying games would have a BIG colorful sticker proclaiming "Ranked in the TOP 300 ALL-TIME Board Games on Boardgamegeek.com"...or something to that effect.

This would help publishers promote their games, help BGG get more traffic (and hopefully more money) and would also sell more good games as people generally like to try products that are rated or ranked highly by some "higher authority".

Recommending in game shops or retail toy shops would be easier as well... "Why not try something from the BGG Top 300 list."

Retailers would also tend to order in better games once people started requesting more games in the style of the "All Time Greats".

I think this would work very well in slowly converting people over to a broad range of better games rather than just having 1 game like TtR or Niagara with a SdJ symbol on the box or 1 game with a BGG "Game of the Year" sticker...that no one outside of BGG has ever heard about.

A wider range of recommended games that included a few that people may already be familiar with would be a good way to get people to branch out and try more variety.

What's everyone think of this sort of sticker program?

 
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Jim Cote
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If Aldie and Derk picked 15-20 mature and varied BGGers, and each of those did the same, we'd have a really nice set of 200-400 people that could rate games reasonably fairly. People should be picked not based on friendship, but based on their gaming experience and their opinions being well thought out. This group could be responsible for choosing the winner(s) of the Spiel des Geek, etc.
 
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Boards & Bits
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Another possiblity would be to base it on sales of Euro-games from online retailers. I would say that most of our customers come from BGG or a similar group of knowledgeable individuals, so our top sellers should resemble the current group of desirable games. And continual great sellers would definitely make the list as well.

Tom
 
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J C Lawrence
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ekted wrote:
If Aldie and Derk picked 15-20 mature and varied BGGers, and each of those did the same, we'd have a really nice set of 200-400 people that could rate games reasonably fairly. People should be picked not based on friendship, but based on their gaming experience and their opinions being well thought out. This group could be responsible for choosing the winner(s) of the Spiel des Geek, etc.


Proposal:

p = geometric mean of the number of plays in the last calendar year
r = total number of reporting players
a = bayesian average rating for the game by reporting players
t = arithmetic mean of play mength values on listing
n = arithmetic mean of player count on listing

Geek rating = prat/n
 
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Jim Cote
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BoardsAndBits wrote:
Another possiblity would be to base it on sales of Euro-games from online retailers. I would say that most of our customers come from BGG or a similar group of knowledgeable individuals, so our top sellers should resemble the current group of desirable games. And continual great sellers would definitely make the list as well.


Quantity does not equal quality. Best selling game could be a category, but that will never be best game in my opinion.
 
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J C Lawrence
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ekted wrote:
Quantity does not equal quality. Best selling game could be a category, but that will never be best game in my opinion.


True, but it seems reasonable to derive a value based on what is actually played. Much as Snoop and FluffDaddy's Top 100 Games of All time (or whatever their title was) very poorly represents the games I'm interested in, it does have value for what is played and thus valued across the middle spectrum of our hobby.
 
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Steven Heinrich
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Hey Clearclaw,

Does that mean that we'll be doing all of the rating with a bunch of prats? hahahahahDD

sorry...couldn't resist
 
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J C Lawrence
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heinrichsteven wrote:
Does that mean that we'll be doing all of the rating with a bunch of prats? hahahahah:D:D:D


Why else do you think I chose those latters in that order?
 
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Paul Boos
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This is of course similar to the teh Games 100, etc.

While in concept, I like the idea of these, there is no reason why a company couldn't do this already (I am supposing) if they thought it would add something.

What could be more interesting and help the hobby in general and perhaps BGG more specifically would be having a generated downloadable "poster" for the month. This could have the top 10, 20, or 25 and the top 10 or so new entries (based on BGG average, nothing different, you want it to easily match what people can easily understand and what they can see directly on the site otherwise it could lose credibility). Nothing extravagant - the real point for these is to assist stores in selling product by BGG becoming a tool for them as well, but targeting it so the games being bought are what will increase the quality of the hobby. That doesn't mean turning everyone into geeks like us, but more exposing them to additional games they would not necessarily see at Toy'R'Us. I would suggest that perhaps these list posters get printed by BGG and sent to some of the larger hobby/toy stores. Why? If only a few of the store managers post them, they may drive up some interest - again this is good for the gaming industry as I doubt all of sudden at that level we would turn Toys'R'Us into carrying many of these, but it would generate enough interest that they may carry a couple of the consistent top ones. Additionally, it would raise consumer interest overall.

Another thought for the on-line retailers: use of a web-service based list that does the same as this generated poster (RSS feed? not sure if that would work, might need ot be more specific).

My 2 cents...

 
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Darren M
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I agree with you Paul...I guess the point I'm getting at and I think what you are saying as well is that a "Game of the Year" award doesn't do a whole lot for the hobby. I'd rather see a broad list of games spotlighted and put into the public eye so people could see what's available and just how many good games are out there.

Not everyone will like Niagara or Ticket to Ride or Caylus or whatever other hot new game is the flavor of the moment but the top 10% or so of games ranked on BGG contains a good range of war, euro, abstract, party etc style games that 99% of people have likely never heard of. Just getting the names of these games out there associated with the BGG website should have a snowball effect of helping people find out more info about what's actually available.

I definitely am in favor of just using the ratings already available on BGG. A jury style system or elitest panel is too limiting. I like having all the opinions mixed together...different ages, different countries, different gaming backgrounds etc. We on BGG all have one common interest...boardgaming...and breaking us down into elitest groups does nothing to help spread the hobby. Shilling and anti-shilling is inevitable but in the grand scheme of things it's mainly just children pissing into the wind...it doesn't effect the big picture as everything has a way of balancing out.

The Games 100 is ok as far as it goes but it's not as relevant as say a BGG top 300 would be. This site is THE BEST site for ongoing info on boardgames. The community here is constantly reviewing and evaluating old and new games and that's what makes it better than the Games 100 style of lists. BGG is available everyday and is as up-to-date as possible on new and old board games in the hobby. It also covers all the genres of boardgames...even the niches that just might be areas that suck newbies in. Not every newbie wants Ticket to Ride or Settlers of Catan. Some might very well love slightly "different" style games like Carabande, Warmachine, Dungeon Twister or A Game of Thrones.

If people can somehow get exposed to BGG and learn that their Monopoly - Star Wars Limited Collectors Edition is ranked 2656th they may start wondering about the 2655 games that just *might* be a little better.

Having more games with a sticker on it that boldly proclaims it's a "Good Game" and gives a link to BGG where more info can be found would be a great step in the right direction at getting El Grande and Power Grid into the aisles where Risk and Clue now clog up the shelves.
 
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Sean McCarthy
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I think it's a bad idea to base anything like that off of the existing BGG ratings. The ratings here (intentionally) use a very subjective scale, and it's reasonable for anyone here to rate any game whatever they feel like. This is fine as long as the ratings have no meaning.

If you start basing physical sticker recommendations off of them, this peaceful paradise will be completely overrun by crazy bias and special interests. That would be bad.

Any physical award type thing should be based on a new, separate voting process.
 
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Darren M
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I can see what you are saying Sean. The potential for abuse is always there and I suppose I look at it this way...we have a pretty active "GeekPolice Force" here on BGG and if ratings for games look suspicious the shillbusters jump in pretty damn quick to crucify anyone that may be doing anything strange.

I guess I'm sort of counting on the shill-antishill equilibrium to be maintained because I know there are people who are pretty anal about these things...and always will be. They are a part of BGG and for better or worse we may as well live with their effects and realise that they actually do keep a lid on "irrational exuberance"...justifiably or not...from time to time.

I'd like a system where people could find out about new games...then come to the BGG site and rate and have an effect on the ratings as well. They could buy games and then vote on what they think of them so they feel they have a say in the rating process...games chosen "by the people for the people" without an elistist jury involved. If they don't like the games they buy then they will rate and say so and the Top 300 would constantly evolve as the community grows...reflecting the likes and dislikes of a broader range of gamers. It's just what we have now except with broader exposure to the site through a bit of promotion.
 
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Philip Thomas
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I'm not sure that a sticker saying this game is in the top n on Boardgamesgeek will be that much of a plus for non-gamers- the geek part alone might put them off.

Good on boardgamegeek should translate to good sales if people start buying the games- after all there is no difference between us geeks and real people...

Trivial pursuit is a quiz in board game form. It is boring and quickly outlasts its welcome.
 
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