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Subject: Manila - How do YOU play the game? rss

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(Mr.) Kim Beattie
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Rocklin
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In Flanders fields the poppies blow Between the crosses, row on row, That mark our place; and in the sky The larks, still bravely singing, fly Scarce heard amid the guns below.
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For a light game, Manila has a number of "murky" rules areas. I've already seen discussions of how the game "should" be played vs. playing as the rules are written. Barring an offical FAQ, this is an attempt to gather these unclear rule situations in one place and present the alternatives for clarifying the rules.

1. If a punt arrives in port after the 2nd round of movement, can 3rd round accomplices be placed on the punt (if room is available) or the Wharf the punt arrived at?

According to the English version of the rules and Jay Tummelson, it is permissible to play accomplices on a newly arrived punt or the Wharf the punt arrived at during the 3rd round of accomplice placement.

According to the game's designer, the original (play test) rules prohibited placing accomplices on a newly arrived punt or the Wharf it arrived at during the 3rd round. This was later changed to reduce rules exceptions and complexity.

It feels "wrong" to allow the placement of accomplices after a punt has arrived in Manila. Unless you subscribe to the "It's good to be the Harbor Master" theory of game play. But the "official" ruling is that it is okay, so I guess that's how I'll play it...

2. Punts that reach row 13... Punts on Row 13, if not plundered by the pirates arrive in Manilla.

It's not exactly obvious, but this is in the English version of the rules. (Punts that are plundered by the Pirates go to Manila or the Shipyard at the Pirate Captain's choice.)

3. Insurance Agent payments... One section of the English rules appears to say that the Insurance Agent pays out for punts that arrive at the Wharves in Manila or in the Shipyard.

It seems to me that this is clearly a misprint and that the Insurance Agent only pays for ships that arrive in the Shipyard.

4. The value of encumbered shares... According the English version of the rules, it is not clear if encumbered shares are counted in the final totals before loans are repaid, or not.

It appears that all shares, unencumbered and encumbered, are valued at the current market rate before loans are repaid. In the latest version of the German rules, it is made clear that only unencumbered shares are considered during the end game. Encumbered shares are not counted and must still be paid off before a final Peso total is reached.

If encumbered shares are not counted in the final totals, it then makes sense to try and pay the loans off before the end of the game. This makes taking a loan a riskier proposition. Otherwise, there is no incentive to pay the loans off before the end of the game.
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bruno faidutti
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This is not what I see in the rules, I even d'ont look at them to answer, it's just the way we play the game, and the way we love it.


1 - I play it is not possible to place an accomplice on a punt already in Manila, or on a wharf where a punt already arrived. I even never checked the rules, it sounded obvious to us.

2 - I play that there is actually a row 13 before Manila, so punt stay on row 13 and move on next turn, if any. Punts plundered by the pirates are an exception.

3 - Of course, only for punts in the shipyard.

4 - This is the only point we found ambiguous and have discussed, and we now play the way you suggest, meaning tha encumbered shares have no value at the end of the game and must still be paid off.
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Chaddyboy
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I play the way Bruno plays. Whether they agree with the actual rules or not, those rules make the most sense.
 
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Jim Pulles
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1. Any empty spot is playable... whether the punt is already in Manila or not. Think of it as hiring additional crew to unload.

2. If a punt is not boarded by Pirates, it continues to sail to Manila on the 3rd round.

3. The Insurance Agent pays for the Shipyard only... his office isn't even connected to the Manila wharf.

4. Here I tend to disagree with previous posters... an encumbered share is only a share that has been used as security for a loan, and should in no way reduce the value of the share to zero. If anything, it should be worth its final market value less the amount of the loan. We include them in the final valuation before loans are deducted.

 
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Pierce Ostrander
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faidutti wrote:
This is not what I see in the rules, I even d'ont look at them to answer, it's just the way we play the game, and the way we love it.


1 - I play it is not possible to place an accomplice on a punt already in Manila, or on a wharf where a punt already arrived. I even never checked the rules, it sounded obvious to us.

2 - I play that there is actually a row 13 before Manila, so punt stay on row 13 and move on next turn, if any. Punts plundered by the pirates are an exception.

3 - Of course, only for punts in the shipyard.

4 - This is the only point we found ambiguous and have discussed, and we now play the way you suggest, meaning tha encumbered shares have no value at the end of the game and must still be paid off.


1. This is not what the rules say... but is the way we play based in the comment of the designer on his intent.
2. This is contrary to the rules. Row 13 is arrival, unless there is a pirate.
3. Agree.
4. This is contrary to the rules. The rules say they are paid off and then scored.
 
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Dick Hunt
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fubar awol wrote:
faidutti wrote:

2 - I play that there is actually a row 13 before Manila, so punt stay on row 13 and move on next turn, if any. Punts plundered by the pirates are an exception.


2. This is contrary to the rules. Row 13 is arrival, unless there is a pirate.


You're both right...sort of.

Under "Successful Voyage," the first sentence says "Each punt which travels past space 13 reaches its destination port of MANILA." That clearly defines what it takes for a punt to complete a successful voyage--it has to travel past space 13.

Then, for some strange reason, they muddy the waters:

The Plunder rule's first sentence says "Each punt which stands on space 13 after the third movement round falls into the hands of the pirates."

But the Plunder rule also covers situations with no pirates: "When a punt stands on space 13 after the third movement round and there are no pirates on the pirate boat, it is placed on the next vacant port space."

Now why should this be the case? If you were one of two people who paid to put accomplices into the Pilot spaces, and then both of you used your Pilots to back a boat up as far as you could (three spaces total, of course), why should you get hosed just because there were no pirates when the punt ended up on space 13? That would make me a little crazy! I pay 5 pesos to screw over your fancy silk boat, it works, and you still get a big fat profit just because there were no Pirates around to screw it over as well? Now I feel like my Pilot was a victim of Pirates!!

In my eyes, they're making an unnecessary exception to the defintion of a Successful Voyage. Giving a punt an extra movement point just because there don't happen to be any pirates in the pirate boat seems confusing at best. What's the point of doing so?
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Jim Cote
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DSHStratRat2 wrote:
You're both right...sort of.

Under "Successful Voyage," the first sentence says "Each punt which travels past space 13 reaches its destination port of MANILA." That clearly defines what it takes for a punt to complete a successful voyage--it has to travel past space 13.

Then, for some strange reason, they muddy the waters:

The Plunder rule's first sentence says "Each punt which stands on space 13 after the third movement round falls into the hands of the pirates."

But the Plunder rule also covers situations with no pirates: "When a punt stands on space 13 after the third movement round and there are no pirates on the pirate boat, it is placed on the next vacant port space."

Now why should this be the case? If you were one of two people who paid to put accomplices into the Pilot spaces, and then both of you used your Pilots to back a boat up as far as you could (three spaces total, of course), why should you get hosed just because there were no pirates when the punt ended up on space 13? That would make me a little crazy! I pay 5 pesos to screw over your fancy silk boat, it works, and you still get a big fat profit just because there were no Pirates around to screw it over as well? Now I feel like my Pilot was a victim of Pirates!!

In my eyes, they're making an unnecessary exception to the defintion of a Successful Voyage. Giving a punt an extra movement point just because there don't happen to be any pirates in the pirate boat seems confusing at best. What's the point of doing so?


I just think it was a poor choice of wording or sequence in the rules. They should be worded like so:

"Any punts that reach or pass the 13 space go to the harbor UNLESS plundered by pirates."

This is really what all of those 4 different sections of the rules boil down to.
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Mike Clarke
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Quote:
Then, for some strange reason, they muddy the waters:

The Plunder rule's first sentence says "Each punt which stands on space 13 after the third movement round falls into the hands of the pirates."

But the Plunder rule also covers situations with no pirates: "When a punt stands on space 13 after the third movement round and there are no pirates on the pirate boat, it is placed on the next vacant port space."

Now why should this be the case? If you were one of two people who paid to put accomplices into the Pilot spaces, and then both of you used your Pilots to back a boat up as far as you could (three spaces total, of course), why should you get hosed just because there were no pirates when the punt ended up on space 13?

In my eyes, they're making an unnecessary exception to the defintion of a Successful Voyage. Giving a punt an extra movement point just because there don't happen to be any pirates in the pirate boat seems confusing at best. What's the point of doing so?


I agree with rule as it is. You have to make it past 13 because pirates lie in wait...but if no pirates lie in wait then making it to 13 guarantees you an easy sail into port. 13 be pirate waters (and an unlucky number to boot). arrrrrrrrr. It makes perfect sense!
 
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Luca Iennaco
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DSHStratRat2 wrote:
Giving a punt an extra movement point just because there don't happen to be any pirates in the pirate boat seems confusing at best. What's the point of doing so?

Speed up the game, maybe?
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