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TactDecks: Reign of Heroes» Forums » General

Subject: I changed the name of this thread because no one was looking at it (PNP) rss

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Eric Etkin
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I'm (hopefully) finishing up TactDecks: Reign of Heroes and incorporating the last of my 2012 playtester data/changes.

So... this is leading me towards wanting to provide the game for an open test drive pre-Kickstarter.

 


But here's my problem: TactDecks mechanics are card-driven... this would involve a LOT of cards to print out and cut.

As I've noticed with previous PNP iterations of the game, my files get downloaded... and not printed (or played) due to ink and (presumably) assembly time.

All told, I'd have about:

40 character cards
20 Action cards
20 Reserve cards
20 Solo play/AI cards
12 Spell cards (X2)
4 Invocation cards
20 Terrain cards
20 Artifact cards

Plus the tokens, tiles, and rules.

Now - since the new version of the game no longer uses cards as pawns (like Summoner Wars or Battleground), I could convert all of the above cards to charts... where results could be determined by rolling a D20 (Actions, Reserves, Artifacts, Solo Play) or D12 (Spells). Any other cards would just be text references.

The required printing at that point would be only about 6 color pages for the tiles/tokens and then another 12 pages or so for the associated charts/rules (but these would be B&W prints with no required assembly time).

So - the million dollar question is... is this worth my time to assemble these files? I want this game to get played, discussed, etc. But at the same time, I'm looking at hours of work on my end just to get these files formatted for PNP.

Would you print this? Play it? Comment on it? Would you think the "feel" of the game is compromised by using charts/dice?

Poll
Would you be interested in a TactDecks: Reign of Heroes PNP?
Yes. I'd print, play, and provide feedback if needed.
Yes. I'd print and play this.
Maybe. Depends on the rules.
Maybe. Depends on my time.
No. I have too many games already.
No. This doesn't appeal to me at all (please specify why).
      27 answers
Poll created by MOTHDevil
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Eric Etkin
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soblue Is there a cricket emoticon?
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jes m
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Hey,

Sorry no one is commenting. I personally haven't done any kickstarter/beta-testing types of things, so I don't have much to contribute to your questions. But I wanted you to know you're heard. It looks nice, and I can tell you put a lot of work into it. I admire your ingenuity and creativity! I personally can't see myself ever getting a game together from scratch like you have.

I hope that you find the people you need to help you get to the next stage.

Have a good day! And happy gaming,

Jes
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Eric Etkin
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jesb wrote:
Hey,

Sorry no one is commenting. I personally haven't done any kickstarter/beta-testing types of things, so I don't have much to contribute to your questions. But I wanted you to know you're heard. It looks nice, and I can tell you put a lot of work into it. I admire your ingenuity and creativity! I personally can't see myself ever getting a game together from scratch like you have.

I hope that you find the people you need to help you get to the next stage.

Have a good day! And happy gaming,

Jes


Thank you.
 
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Eric Etkin
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Now with sexy poll.
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Ghislain LEVEQUE
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MOTHDevil wrote:

All told, I'd have about:

40 character cards
20 Action cards
20 Reserve cards
20 Solo play/AI cards
12 Spell cards (X2)
4 Invocation cards
20 Terrain cards
20 Artifact cards

Plus the tokens, tiles, and rules.

Now - since the new version of the game no longer uses cards as pawns (like Summoner Wars or Battleground), I could convert all of the above cards to charts... where results could be determined by rolling a D20 (Actions, Reserves, Artifacts, Solo Play) or D12 (Spells). Any other cards would just be text references.


Hum.... I don't know your game yet but I'm not sure that card randomness is the same as dice randomness unless the cards all get shuffled every time before drawing one.

Then I have to say that your game is interesting me and if you make this "PnP" light version I think I will build it and play it, I think
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Adam Kazimierczak
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I feel your pain.

2 out of 4 of my prototype idea posts got no love on BGG and hardly any replies. At least there are more eyes on screens here than at BGDF. I'd help but I have 3 prototypes running, a retheme/overhaul and no time. My 2 cents:


-Why aren't you posting this on the Board Game Design forum? There at least you have designers subscribing to the forum who are more likely to comment.

-Try resurrecting your last Tact Decks thread from last month (languishing on page 4 of the forum now) to put the call out for playtesters as perhaps some of those who posted on that may have bookmarked the thread.

(edit)-My two games that have playtesters jumping up and down waiting for a copy did it through the theme. Pitch the theme and, if you have it, toss some artwork up on a thread. Playtesters are more likely to get excited over that than a plea for help.


It's the blessing and curse of BGG: lots of casual observers with opinions, but not so many dedicated playtesters or free helpers. The most popular WIP posts are the least formed ideas: "I thought of something in a dream last night" or "I might have a possible idea for a game (but haven't thought it through at all)." People love posting opinions and brainstorming a clean slate.
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CHAPEL
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MOTHDevil wrote:

soblue Is there a cricket emoticon?


Well, it's sad but what do you expect? It a game the re-implements an exsting game that 7 people commented on and 21 people own listed in BGG.

Are you expecting a lot of feedback?
 
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Eric Etkin
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courtjus wrote:


Hum.... I don't know your game yet but I'm not sure that card randomness is the same as dice randomness unless the cards all get shuffled every time before drawing one.


Well - what would basically happen is one of two options:

You'd have a checklist. As the card is "rolled," it's locked out and played, until all other cards are dealt... at which point the deck is "reshuffled."

You'd just roll the dice and pick the appropriate card. Granted, this isn't perfect, and doesn't capture the "card-counting" component, but it'd give you a decent taste of the game.

 
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Eric Etkin
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kaziam wrote:
I feel your pain.




Yeah - I've placed some calls on the design forum before, posted other threads. Sometimes I get some interest and response, sometimes I don't. It's tough, because other designers want to help, but are limited in what they can offer due to lack of time to familiarize with the rules. Many times I get earnest, well-meaning replies to questions that I can't do anything with because the idea/response is coming out of a vacuum where the poster is unfamiliar with the game basics.

And then there's the added human element which I think causes people to have less interest in actually printing/playing something they get for free, due to a lack of financial investment and need for time. PNPers are a rare, stalwart breed, and we're all human with limited time.

But at the end of the day - at this point - I'm looking more to increase awareness of the game itself, not so much playtester feedback.

 
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EnderWizard
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MOTHDevil: If I am remembering correctly, you live relatively close to me. If you're ultimately looking for playtesting, I could try and get the guys I game with together and sit down with you. Interested?
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Eric Etkin
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Ender Wiggin wrote:
MOTHDevil: If I am remembering correctly, you live relatively close to me. If you're ultimately looking for playtesting, I could try and get the guys I game with together and sit down with you. Interested?


Absolutely!

I just need to get the final files all printed and cut out... I was also planning on getting the new cards printed up via POD, so that may take me a month or so.
 
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mike
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Eric it's all about selling the post subject to draw attention, take a que from commercials, where the commercial has nothing to do with the product.

So something like this would draw immediate views to the thread and replies

"Act now FREE: Beer, Food,Games, Served by HOT COLLEGE GIRLS and all sports in HD, FREE"

technically game is in the subject, but you use the other items to draw people in

Seriously though a print and play option would be cool, and I would certainly take a look at it prior to the kickstarter campaign launching
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Liam
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Mob Ties: The Board Game offered a free PNP prior to successfully launching their game on Kickstarter.
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Sean T
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I would be careful with the card to dice conversion; dice are not very good at mimicking a deck of cards.


On another note, I would totally print and play this with my friends, just based on the description alone. The key for PnP games is that if the game play is amazing, people won't regret the time put into assembling it. (Side note: I often design my own games in my spare time, so I am a little biased toward DIY)

Where can I download the files?
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EnderWizard
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MOTHDevil wrote:
Ender Wiggin wrote:
MOTHDevil: If I am remembering correctly, you live relatively close to me. If you're ultimately looking for playtesting, I could try and get the guys I game with together and sit down with you. Interested?


Absolutely!

I just need to get the final files all printed and cut out... I was also planning on getting the new cards printed up via POD, so that may take me a month or so.


This sounds like a solid plan. Besides, with all the holiday business coming up for all of our respective families trying to find the time before/during them might be a serious pain in the ass. I'll hit you up with a Geekmail and discuss more with you there.
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Simon Lundström
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No promise, but if an interesting PnP game was only 6 pages of colour, and 12 pages of B/W, I could stomach that.

Then again, while not being your usual PnP:er, I am pretty used to using my printer do print stuff for board games (card pasteups), so maybe I'm in the minority.

I think you should assemble these files as that would help people to play it. Not saying what that will result in, but I don't think 6 pages is that much.
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Jacob Søgaard
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I actually noticed your game page due to a comment of yours in another thread and I find your game interesting.

Problem is I hate PnP - if you could magically ensure that very little amount of work was needed and the game pieces would be of high quality (I hate ugly components) I might be interested. Since that is not likely I voted "No. I have too many games already."
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Eric Etkin
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ffascout3 wrote:
I would be careful with the card to dice conversion; dice are not very good at mimicking a deck of cards.


On another note, I would totally print and play this with my friends, just based on the description alone. The key for PnP games is that if the game play is amazing, people won't regret the time put into assembling it. (Side note: I often design my own games in my spare time, so I am a little biased toward DIY)

Where can I download the files?


Thanks! I'll need to put these files together, optimized for PNP. It's a lot of work on my end, that's why I was trying to gauge the interest level first.
 
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Eric Etkin
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Chubby wrote:
I actually noticed your game page due to a comment of yours in another thread and I find your game interesting.

Problem is I hate PnP - if you could magically ensure that very little amount of work was needed and the game pieces would be of high quality (I hate ugly components) I might be interested. Since that is not likely I voted "No. I have too many games already."


The components are essentially what you see in the images section (minus the cards). There's been a few tweaks since then, but that's what you'd be getting.

... I should also mention that the 16 4x4 inch tiles which come with the game are designed around a 1" square standard, so you could presumably use them for other applications as well (and I'm certainly not opposed to others designing their own tiles).
 
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Moved to TactDecks: Reign of Heroes: General
 
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Eric Etkin
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Hmm... ok, so in this small sample, I have at least 6 definites and another 4 maybes.

If there's even 5 gamers out there willing to not only play, but also commit to providing some sort of session reports, feedback, etc., that's worth my time.

Give me a bit to get these files together. I also need to re-compile the rules with all the latest updates. If you haven't done so, please subscribe to this thread so you can get alerted when the files are ready!

Thank you!
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Eric Etkin
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Update:

I'm finishing up the rulebook now (mainly the cover and some proofing) , and I should have everything ready for upload in the next few days. I'll probably upload the rulebook first, followed by the components shortly after.

All told, we're looking at a 22 page rulebook (which includes tutorial, glossary, index, etc.), about 8 pages of tokens/tiles (plus some optional extras), and a few B&W pages of dice charts that drive the (normally card driven) mechanics.

Everything is optimized for quick cutting, and the rulebook's font is easily big enough to shrink the book's printing size down.

With the exception of subbing dice-driven charts for the card mechanics, the game is complete and the full monty, including all 20 Artifacts and the Shadow Lord solo play option.
 
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Eric Etkin
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And..... we're off!

All PNP files are now uploaded and in the TactDecks: Reign of Heroes FILES section.



Thank you to Admin! This was the quickest file approval - ever!
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Greg Gresik
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Honestly, I would be much more likely to PnP the cards too - rather than drop $20 to have someone else print them.

It's easy to rationalize printing and cutting several pages of card paste-ups. Much harder to pay $20 to try a game that isn't a finished product yet. Especially since you don't really even have to print all 200 cards - just the decks/parts you need to try the game.

Just trying to be honest - please don't take it the wrong way. I really like the look of the game.
 
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