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UPS Info wrote:
The UPS Foundation seeks to support organizations that are in alignment with our focus areas, guidelines, and non-discrimination policy. UPS and The UPS Foundation do not discriminate against any person or organization with regard to categories protected by applicable law, as well as other categories protected by UPS and The UPS Foundation in our own policies. These include, but are not limited to race, gender, national origin, disability, sexual orientation, gender identity, veteran or military status, pregnancy, age and religion.


Intel Info wrote:
"We feel strongly about the underlying values that are Intel, very strongly that we have a nondiscrimination policy on a wide variety of issues," corporate spokesman Chuck Mulloy said. "And if you aren't complying, you shouldn't be asking us for money."

Intel has remained quiet on the subject of gay marriage (one of its Washington County neighbors, Nike, endorsed the newly passed Referendum 74 legalizing gay marriage in Washington State.)

Its nondiscrimination policy, though, covers sexual orientation, among several other categories.

"We won't discriminate against same-sex couples, and we do provide benefits" to same-sex partners of Intel employees, Mulloy said.


BSA Response wrote:
"We fully understand and appreciate that not everyone will agree with any one position or policy; however, we believe a strong partnership does not require full agreement on every societal issue," wrote Deron Smith, spokesman for Boy Scouts of America.

"Unfortunately," he continued, "this decision will have a direct impact on the youth we serve through local councils, many of whom are disadvantaged and at risk youth."
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jmilum wrote:
BSA Response wrote:
"Unfortunately," he continued, "this decision will have a direct impact on the youth we serve through local councils, many of whom are disadvantaged and at risk youth."


I'm glad they're able to see their own role in maintaining a policy which causes such at-risk children to lose out on the benefits of such donations. Hurray for the champions of personal responsibility!
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I have always felt that you cannot support organizations whose policies you do not support. Maybe I am mad but that's just the way I think. It's odd that this does seem to be an American problem (the scouts that is). I also suspect that thy may find themselves more and more sidelined as their values fall out of step with the rest of society.
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It's sad. I like the scouts but they need to let go of this.
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slatersteven wrote:
I have always felt that you cannot support organizations whose policies you do not support. Maybe I am mad but that's just the way I think. It's odd that this does seem to be an American problem (the scouts that is). I also suspect that thy may find themselves more and more sidelined as their values fall out of step with the rest of society.


It would be nice if I had a choice when my govenment provides grants to orgaizations thta I don't agree with.
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costguy wrote:
It would be nice if I had a choice when my govenment provides grants to orgaizations thta I don't agree with.

You do. Your choice was last Tuesday.
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I hope they stop funding PBS as well... because it's now clear PBS has not kept pedophiles from being a long-term part of it's programming.
 
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DWTripp wrote:
I hope they stop funding PBS as well... because it's now clear PBS has not kept pedophiles from being a long-term part of it's programming.

I didn't think you had a problem with pedophiles since you sport that avatar
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DWTripp wrote:
I hope they stop funding PBS as well... because it's now clear PBS has not kept pedophiles from being a long-term part of it's programming.


You might be mistaken about that.
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rinelk wrote:
DWTripp wrote:
I hope they stop funding PBS as well... because it's now clear PBS has not kept pedophiles from being a long-term part of it's programming.


You might be mistaken about that.


Hey, an accusation is as good as fact in the world of anti-republican media. The Elmo guy had sex with a kid. Yes, he denies it, but so what? Clearly he is a pedophile cause the kid was apparently 16 at the time. Sesame Street is a PBS product and is funded by the feds along with big corporations. So in effect, your tax dollars are funding pedophiles.

Not that it matters, because Ted Nugent boned a 17 year old back 40 years or so ago and despite not getting any federal money while having sex with a minor, that is clearly much worse than Elmo diddling a young boy or some random homosexual troop leader diddling some scouts.

Once you draw a line I think everyone needs to respect the entire line, not just when it applies to the other guys.
 
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DWTripp wrote:
rinelk wrote:
DWTripp wrote:
I hope they stop funding PBS as well... because it's now clear PBS has not kept pedophiles from being a long-term part of it's programming.


You might be mistaken about that.


Hey, an accusation is as good as fact in the world of anti-republican media. The Elmo guy had sex with a kid. Yes, he denies it, but so what? Clearly he is a pedophile cause the kid was apparently 16 at the time. Sesame Street is a PBS product and is funded by the feds along with big corporations. So in effect, your tax dollars are funding pedophiles.

Not that it matters, because Ted Nugent boned a 17 year old back 40 years or so ago and despite not getting any federal money while having sex with a minor, that is clearly much worse than Elmo diddling a young boy or some random homosexual troop leader diddling some scouts.

Once you draw a line I think everyone needs to respect the entire line, not just when it applies to the other guys.


Even when the crimes in question are imaginary?
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DWTripp wrote:
Not that it matters, because Ted Nugent boned a 17 year old back 40 years or so ago

He's a self professed "serial pedophile" and also got his dick sucked by a 12 year old, hmmmm maybe that's when the picture featured in your avatar was taken...
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DWTripp wrote:
Hey, an accusation is as good as fact in the world of anti-republican media. The Elmo guy had sex with a kid. Yes, he denies it, but so what? Clearly he is a pedophile cause the kid was apparently 16 at the time. Sesame Street is a PBS product and is funded by the feds along with big corporations. So in effect, your tax dollars are funding pedophiles.


At this point, I think everyone is denying it.

Quote:
Not that it matters, because Ted Nugent boned a 17 year old back 40 years or so ago and despite not getting any federal money while having sex with a minor, that is clearly much worse than Elmo diddling a young boy or some random homosexual troop leader diddling some scouts.


The creepy part is how he aranged to become her legal guardian.

Quote:
Once you draw a line I think everyone needs to respect the entire line, not just when it applies to the other guys.


Which line would that be for you exactly?
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chaendlmaier wrote:
DWTripp wrote:
I hope they stop funding PBS as well... because it's now clear PBS has not kept pedophiles from being a long-term part of it's programming.

Homosexuality = paedophilia ?


That's what this thread is about Curt. Homosexual pedophiles. Some were Boy Scout leaders and one seems to have been a PBS employee.
 
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No, this thread is not about homosexual pedophiles.
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jmilum wrote:
No, this thread is not about homosexual pedophiles.


Dude, it is now.
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BSA has always been a Christian organization. There's nothing wrong with holding onto that, but they need to stop acting like a charity instead of a religious organization in terms of how they get government assistance and use federal tax dollars. Companies like Intel and UPS just have to decide if the discrimination issue outweighs all the good things BSA does.
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happyjosiah wrote:
BSA has always been a Christian organization. There's nothing wrong with holding onto that, but they need to stop acting like a charity instead of a religious organization in terms of how they get government assistance and use federal tax dollars. Companies like Intel and UPS just have to decide if the discrimination issue outweighs all the good things BSA does.


When the good stuff they do is only for certain kinds of people, I can understand the decision of those dropping support. The BSA are certainly free to operate in this manner, but their influence will diminish.
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DWTripp wrote:
jmilum wrote:
No, this thread is not about homosexual pedophiles.


Dude, it is now.


This just in:

Quote:
A man who accused Elmo puppeteer Kevin Clash of having sex with him when he was a teenage boy has recanted his story.

In a quick turnabout, the man on Tuesday described his sexual relationship with Clash as adult and consensual


so we're left with Nugent. Unless there have been conservative politicians visiting public restrooms recently?



.
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DCAnderson wrote:
The Boy Scouts really need to get the fuck out of politics and focus on actually helping kids, rather than making asinine political statements.


Really, the Boy Scouts making political statements?

I guess that re-affirming a policy is a political statement? (policy = political)

OK so recently a Scout Troops made a mistake of greeting Romney at a political fundraiser against BSA policy.


Please point out how the BSA is "in" politics.
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DCAnderson wrote:
costguy wrote:
DCAnderson wrote:
The Boy Scouts really need to get the fuck out of politics and focus on actually helping kids, rather than making asinine political statements.


Really, the Boy Scouts making political statements?

I guess that re-affirming a policy is a political statement? (policy = political)

OK so recently a Scout Troops made a mistake of greeting Romney at a political fundraiser against BSA policy.


Please point out how the BSA is "in" politics.


Discriminating against homosexuals and atheists is about making a stupid point. There is no good reason for it as far as providing constructive activities for kids goes.



The issue is that the BSA holds the position that Homosexuality is inconsistent with their core values. This is a position they have held for decades and has been upheld by the SCOTUS These core values are stated clearly in the by the Scout Oath and Scout Law which all scouts agree to live by when joining (along with the outdoor code.)

As far as excluding atheist..how could an atheist pledge "To do my duty to God and my country.." or "A Scout is ...reverent." An atheist clearly can not participate in an organization that requires him to pledge to be reverent. You may find standing up for moral beliefs and even belief in God to be "a stupid point" but I think you will find the majority of people (st least in this country) disagree with you.

Just because you disagree with something does not make it stupid or political.
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costguy wrote:
The issue is that the BSA holds the position that Homosexuality is inconsistent with their core values. This is a position they have held for decades and has been upheld by the SCOTUS These core values are stated clearly in the by the Scout Oath and Scout Law which all scouts agree to live by when joining (along with the outdoor code.)


I can't figure out what part of Scout Law has a problem with gay people. This part is interesting though: "If he thinks these rules and laws are unfair, he tries to have them changed in an orderly manner rather than disobey them."

Quote:
As far as excluding atheist..how could an atheist pledge "To do my duty to God and my country.." or "A Scout is ...reverent." An atheist clearly can not participate in an organization that requires him to pledge to be reverent. You may find standing up for moral beliefs and even belief in God to be "a stupid point" but I think you will find the majority of people (st least in this country) disagree with you.


Pledges can be changed. They need to decide whether they want to be an inclusive or exclusive organization. If they want to be exclusive, they will not be able to count on as much external help as they have in the past.

Quote:
Just because you disagree with something does not make it stupid or political.


Stupid is in the eye of the beholder. Or something like that.
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rshipley wrote:
costguy wrote:
The issue is that the BSA holds the position that Homosexuality is inconsistent with their core values. This is a position they have held for decades and has been upheld by the SCOTUS These core values are stated clearly in the by the Scout Oath and Scout Law which all scouts agree to live by when joining (along with the outdoor code.)


I can't figure out what part of Scout Law has a problem with gay people. This part is interesting though: "If he thinks these rules and laws are unfair, he tries to have them changed in an orderly manner rather than disobey them."

Quote:
As far as excluding atheist..how could an atheist pledge "To do my duty to God and my country.." or "A Scout is ...reverent." An atheist clearly can not participate in an organization that requires him to pledge to be reverent. You may find standing up for moral beliefs and even belief in God to be "a stupid point" but I think you will find the majority of people (st least in this country) disagree with you.


Pledges can be changed. They need to decide whether they want to be an inclusive or exclusive organization. If they want to be exclusive, they will not be able to count on as much external help as they have in the past.

Quote:
Just because you disagree with something does not make it stupid or political.


Stupid is in the eye of the beholder. Or something like that.


It is not obvious but the BSA "believe(s) that homosexual conduct is inconsistent with the requirement in the Scout Oath that a Scout be morally straight and in the Scout Law that a Scout be clean in word and deed, and that homosexuals do not provide a desirable role model for Scouts."

Yes the BSA has decided that they want to be inclusive of all who agree with their moral stances and exclusive of those that do not. This is called free association.

It is nice to see that your tone has become more civil.
This was intended for someone else, you have not been uncivil I am sorry about the implication.
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costguy wrote:
Just because you disagree with something does not make it stupid or political.


What seems to make this political to me is the intersection of culture with politics. Excluding gays used to be a nearly consensus issue associated with virtue; when the policy was enacted, I don't take it to have been political in nature. But, as culture has changed, full equality for gays has become the position which roughly half the country regards as virtuous. BSA is taking a stand that traditional values matter more than inclusion--that's a position with obvious political ramifications.

If I were to want to justify a choice not to support the BSA anymore, I'd point to its sclerotic bureaucracy as a sign of reduced effectiveness in reaching and helping modern youth. I wouldn't blame someone else for thinking that, were they to change this policy, they would risk a schism which would pull many of their scouts and staff away to form a more explicitly conservative organization. I don't regard myself as sufficiently well-informed to be confident that this sort of concern is absurd; it seems to me that all organizations which attempt to bind America together culturally are stressed by the polarization we see. I wish it were possible for the BSA to play more of this role, but I acknowledge that they're in a tough spot where they're going to seriously anger a bunch of people either by changing the policy or keeping it.
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rinelk wrote:
costguy wrote:
Just because you disagree with something does not make it stupid or political.


What seems to make this political to me is the intersection of culture with politics. Excluding gays used to be a nearly consensus issue associated with virtue; when the policy was enacted, I don't take it to have been political in nature. But, as culture has changed, full equality for gays has become the position which roughly half the country regards as virtuous. BSA is taking a stand that traditional values matter more than inclusion--that's a position with obvious political ramifications.

If I were to want to justify a choice not to support the BSA anymore, I'd point to its sclerotic bureaucracy as a sign of reduced effectiveness in reaching and helping modern youth. I wouldn't blame someone else for thinking that, were they to change this policy, they would risk a schism which would pull many of their scouts and staff away to form a more explicitly conservative organization. I don't regard myself as sufficiently well-informed to be confident that this sort of concern is absurd; it seems to me that all organizations which attempt to bind America together culturally are stressed by the polarization we see. I wish it were possible for the BSA to play more of this role, but I acknowledge that they're in a tough spot where they're going to seriously anger a bunch of people either by changing the policy or keeping it.


I agree with most of what you say, especially about the tough spot the BSA is in. And yes this has gotten political, but it is not a case of the BSA entering the realm of politics, rather it is the case of politics (along with the media, the courts, and many organizations) trying to influence the BSA.
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