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Boss Monster: The Dungeon Building Card Game» Forums » Variants

Subject: Mini-boss variant rss

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Legend Montgomery

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I've been toying with the idea of using a second boss monster as a mini boss. I don't have a lot of ideas at the moment but here is what I've come up with so far and these are just random thoughts:

-during setup each player would randomly pick two boss monster cards, without looking they choose one and play it face up, this is their mini-boss. The other card is revealed and will be their boss.
-then before the first build phase of the game, players draw a room card (highest boss exp goes first)and have to play the room to the RIGHT of your mini boss between it and the boss but during all build phases after that you can place it to either the left OR the right of the mini boss. dungeons would still have a 5 room limit. The first real round then begins.
-mini bosses would have a lower wound threshold, maybe 3 (I thought it might be interesting too if the rooms to either side of the miniboss were destroyed if it died, for some reason lairs explode when bosses die.)Heroes cannot pass the mini-boss. They must kill it first before proceeding thru the rest of the dungeon.
-Miniboss that managed to collect 5(?) souls would then be removed and you'd get some special effect?

Now, while I like the idea, I wonder if it would just bog the game down. You'd essentially being playing a game of boss monster inside another game of boss monster.

I can also see using this as a co-op variant, one player as mini the other as boss.

What do you all think? Is there something we can work out here?
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Best be leaving this idea for a game expansion.
 
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Legend Montgomery

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releasethedogs wrote:
Best be leaving this idea for a game expansion.


Oh, I really hope they do include this in a future expansion... but in the meantime, I'm gonna make my own stuff up. Who knows, maybe what I come up with will inspire them? A man can dream.
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Carlos "Koey"
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Haven't checked BGG in a bit.

Comments:
I do not think if you have 2 bosses you should force the player to one over the other.
Having the boss as a room is interesting.
Explosion might be a bit too strong?
Co-op might be hard to implement as you would be building 2x faster.

Here would be my take on it from reading your post:
Please note all numbers are experimental.
Each person gets dealt 2 boss cards randomly. They will be able to choose who to be mini-bossa and who to be the boss after they see what their initial hand is.

Why would that matter?
Boss - gets their Level Up ability.
Miniboss - treasure type determines their strength.

So you start the game as normal, except with one rule. At any time of the game you will be able to deploy a Mini-boss to your dungeon.
Adding a mini-boss to a room would be +2 to the damage of that room, +3 if they are the same treasure type. Also the mini-boss' treasure type will be added to the lure phase.
For advanced rooms - +1 to room and +2 to same treasure type room. As advanced rooms are quite powerful it has been nerfed so you have to decide should I keep my boss here or upgrade a room for that reason. (Might change if this becomes to weak)

Once per turn you may move the Mini-boss between rooms.

The total number of wounds and souls do not change, you just have to keep track of whether the damage is done to the mini-boss or boss.

If the Hero ever survives a room the mini-boss is in you instantly deal 1 wound to the mini-boss. Flip the card over and add the wound beneath the mini-boss. This means placing your mini-boss too far ahead will lead in wounds early on as the Heroes do not venture further, but the added bonus would help in those "if a hero is killed in this room bonus"

If a mini-boss sustains 3 wounds, move the 3 wounds to the big boss's wound pile and remove the mini-boss. I mean the big guy hurts that the little guy got killed and plus it keeps it so you can still play a normal game of boss monster with the same amount of Heroes.

Optional Rule - when your boss levels up the mini-boss gets +4 and +3 for same treasure rooms. (Not sure how powerful but means choosing your mini-boss is important.
 
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Legend Montgomery

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Great ideas, Koey! Some thoughts:

Koey wrote:
Each person gets dealt 2 boss cards randomly. They will be able to choose who to be mini-boss and who to be the boss after they see what their initial hand is.


Part of me wants to keep it random just cause that's how you get your boss in a normal game of Boss Monster... but maybe this could be a house rule? Each player draws two boss monsters and then however they want to decide the miniboss, random or choice, they do so.
-OR-
You start the game as normal with every player choosing one boss monster. Set the rest of the boss monster cards aside. When a player's dungeon gets 3 rooms for the first time they can then draw a card from the deck of remaining boss monsters and this is their miniboss. This is kind of like a mini level up effect.

Quote:
Adding a mini-boss to a room would be +2 to the damage of that room, +3 if they are the same treasure type. Also the mini-boss' treasure type will be added to the lure phase.


Wondering if this is too powerful. Maybe switch the numbers to closer what you suggested for advanced rooms?

How about: +1 to damage and if it's the same treasure type it gets a +1 bonus to that type. This would apply to normal or advanced rooms. Then if the boss levels up it switches to +2/+2.

The miniboss should be just a small bonus to your dungeon, don't want it to get too powerful. Playtesting will check all these numbers for us though.

Quote:
Once per turn you may move the Mini-boss between rooms.


I like this idea. And I assume you mean it can move to one adjacent room, not jump three rooms over. For game purposes, moving could be considered a miniboss's activated ability. Or maybe you can move INSTEAD of building a room that turn? Maybe. Have to play around with this.

Now, what happens if the room a miniboss is in a)moves, b)is deactivated or c)is destroyed?
a)I think the mini should move with the room for simplicities sake.
b)The mini is also deactivated. Just stuck in limbo as it were.
c)Maybe the mini is returned to your hand? You can't replay it this turn. Next turn you can play as normal. It keeps all wounds. -OR- the mini takes a wound and moves to an adjacent room.

Seriously love the ideas. Could even see these being implemented in a future expansion.
 
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Carlos "Koey"
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Thanks for the kind words.
malcogent wrote:

Koey wrote:
Each person gets dealt 2 boss cards randomly. They will be able to choose who to be mini-boss and who to be the boss after they see what their initial hand is.

Each player draws two boss monsters and then however they want to decide the miniboss, random or choice, they do so.

-OR-
...This is kind of like a mini level up effect.

The reason I made it not random is you still got 2 random bosses. The reason you can choose is, do I want to choose this boss for its level up ability or do I want this boss as my mini boss because I got my fighter cards in my hand.

Also note that I mentioned if the Hero survives the Boss room the Miniboss takes a wound and the Hero does not advance forward, so having it as a mini-level up would guarantee a lot of wounds, since first 2 rooms are not used. (Note any wounds the Mini-boss takes is also the same for Big Boss since BB feels sad his Mini-boss died)



malcogent wrote:

Quote:
Adding a mini-boss to a room would be +2 to the damage of that room, +3 if they are the same treasure type. Also the mini-boss' treasure type will be added to the lure phase.


Wondering if this is too powerful. Maybe switch the numbers to closer what you suggested for advanced rooms?

How about: +1 to damage and if it's the same treasure type it gets a +1 bonus to that type. This would apply to normal or advanced rooms. Then if the boss levels up it switches to +2/+2.


The miniboss should be just a small bonus to your dungeon, don't want it to get too powerful. Playtesting will check all these numbers for us though.
[/q]
Well just an example, if that sounds too strong then probably here.
Pre-level up - +0 any room/ +1 to same treasure type basic room
Level'd up - + 1 to basic room/ +1 to room if same treasure and adv room/ +2 to same treasure type basic room
I was originally of thinking buffing Advanced room might be too powerful, as that would make a Mini-boss lazy letting it do all the work.
So you I gave less bonus to an advanced room, changed it to no bonus so people have to think do I want to upgrade my room or keep my Mini Boss.

This enforces the idea of choosing your mini-boss, based on your opening hand. (ie. TBD and King Croak in hand, but hand full of thief treasure. You might like to play TBD as miniboss as it gives you more damage, but you might not like King Croak's ability as you have a lot of trap a room.)

malcogent wrote:

Quote:
Once per turn you may move the Mini-boss between rooms.


I like this idea. And I assume you mean it can move to one adjacent room, not jump three rooms over. For game purposes, moving could be considered a miniboss's activated ability. Or maybe you can move INSTEAD of building a room that turn? Maybe. Have to play around with this.

Now, what happens if the room a miniboss is in a)moves, b)is deactivated or c)is destroyed?
a)I think the mini should move with the room for simplicities sake.
b)The mini is also deactivated. Just stuck in limbo as it were.
c)Maybe the mini is returned to your hand? You can't replay it this turn. Next turn you can play as normal. It keeps all wounds. -OR- the mini takes a wound and moves to an adjacent room.

Seriously love the ideas. Could even see these being implemented in a future expansion.

Idea of moving could be used such that you cannot build advanced rooms while your boss is there. So I wanted the player a free move.
Yes 1 space is probably good enough as is, surprised I left that out when writing it.

a) Yup agreed
b) I would say tap the MB too as the room is deactivated for the turn. As a freeze would freeze the MB too for that turn.
c) Taking a wound would be tricky as that requires a Hero card. Instead I can see is tap the Mini Boss and slide the rooms as normal. The mini boss is stunned for the turn.

Optional Rule: Moving the Boss into the boss room gives that room a +1 pre-leveld and +2 if level-d up.
 
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Legend Montgomery

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Koey wrote:
The reason I made it not random is you still got 2 random bosses. The reason you can choose is, do I want to choose this boss for its level up ability or do I want this boss as my mini boss because I got my fighter cards in my hand.


I can see your point but I just think that with the randomness of the cards it could just as easily go either way. You may start with fighter cards but as you draw new cards you may end up with a bunch of cleric or thief cards. Luck can be cruel.

Quote:
Also note that I mentioned if the Hero survives the Boss room the Miniboss takes a wound and the Hero does not advance forward, so having it as a mini-level up would guarantee a lot of wounds, since first 2 rooms are not used. (Note any wounds the Mini-boss takes is also the same for Big Boss since BB feels sad his Mini-boss died)


I don't think I explained it correctly. When I said a "mini-level up" I was suggesting that when the dungeon reaches 3 rooms you gain a miniboss, comparing it to how when a dungeon reaches 5 rooms the Boss Monster levels up. I was just using the gameplay mechanic of how the Boss Monster levels up by # of rooms as a reference to gaining a miniboss. Sorry if that was confusing.

Quote:
Idea of moving could be used such that you cannot build advanced rooms while your boss is there.


I like that idea. Makes the player have to make some tough decisions.

Quote:
c) Taking a wound would be tricky as that requires a Hero card. Instead I can see is tap the Mini Boss and slide the rooms as normal. The mini boss is stunned for the turn.


Ha! Can't believe I forgot wounds were tracked by hero cards. Your suggestion much better.

Quote:
Optional Rule: Moving the Boss into the boss room gives that room a +1 pre-leveld and +2 if level-d up.


Hmm. Kinda like the idea of them staying separate. Maybe moving the mini into the boss room lets you sacrifice the mini to get a special effect like
-Remove (not heal) a wound
-draw spell cards
-maybe be dependent on type of treasure on mini?
 
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Carlos "Koey"
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malcogent wrote:

I can see your point but I just think that with the randomness of the cards it could just as easily go either way. You may start with fighter cards but as you draw new cards you may end up with a bunch of cleric or thief cards. Luck can be cruel.

Guess to each their own way. I thought dealing 2 random boss then giving them choice is similar to BWG's draw 7 cards and 2 spells then discard 2 so you end up with a less screwy hand. With the drawing of card and the fact Mini-boss requires same treasure type till you level I think giving the choice makes for a better game in making it more strategic than a luck draw.

malcogent wrote:

I don't think I explained it correctly. When I said a "mini-level up" I was suggesting that when the dungeon reaches 3 rooms you gain a miniboss, comparing it to how when a dungeon reaches 5 rooms the Boss Monster levels up. I was just using the gameplay mechanic of how the Boss Monster levels up by # of rooms as a reference to gaining a miniboss. Sorry if that was confusing.

No I got that, unless what you mean is you draw the 2nd boss card at that time then maybe. But I still like both being drawn at once see point above.
My original point thought you meant that when the Boss hits 3 rooms - the mini-boss is automatically deployed to the third room. Meaning Heroes will have an easy way of dealing wounds.


malcogent wrote:

Hmm. Kinda like the idea of them staying separate. Maybe moving the mini into the boss room lets you sacrifice the mini to get a special effect like
-Remove (not heal) a wound
-draw spell cards
-maybe be dependent on type of treasure on mini?

Maybe... my way is just if someone destroys the room in between, or if you want to upgrade room 1 then maybe you are allowed to move your miniboss into Boss room. Though might be better off and just say Boss room is offlimits this way theres a reason for a boss to be moving around.
 
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Legend Montgomery

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Quote:
No I got that, unless what you mean is you draw the 2nd boss card at that time then maybe. But I still like both being drawn at once see point above.
My original point thought you meant that when the Boss hits 3 rooms - the mini-boss is automatically deployed to the third room. Meaning Heroes will have an easy way of dealing wounds.


Ahh, I see. Haha. Yeah. I wasn't suggesting it had to be deployed immediately or on a specific room. Miscommunication there. Here's a hopefully clearer and edited version:

I think going with your idea of getting to choose your boss and mini, is probably the best. The players would keep their mini in their hand until the dungeon gets 3 rooms. At that time, they have the ability to now play that mini in any room in their dungeon (except the boss as technically it's not a room according to the Brothers) at anytime. It doesn't have to be on that turn, but the option is now open to them.

Quote:
Though might be better off and just say Boss room is offlimits this way there's a reason for a boss to be moving around.


That was kinda my feeling too.

Also, slightly new idea in regards to giving rooms bonuses if the mini is in them. What if it's dependent on room type?
-normal monster rooms get a +1 damage (no treasure bonus)
-normal trap rooms get a +1 to treasure (no damage bonus)
Advanced room might be +2?
Another possibility (though I'm not 100% sold on it) is that the room only gets the bonus if it matches mini's treasure type. This would encourage players to make hero specific dungeons even more.
 
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Brian Taylor
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If the numbers are too far out of skew a flip mechanic can be used to space out when the mini is roaming the dungeon.

Turn 1: mini boss cannot be played
Turn 2: face down gets turned face up
Turn 3: miniboss is placed in dungeon
Turn 4: miniboss returns face down

repeat 2-4 until game ends

Also have you considered making all minibosses text something like...

This room deals X additional damage where X is the number of treasure icons + 1.(minibosses treasure icon).

This would simplify the need to remember ordinary trap\monster room damage, Advanced damage and level up damage. The benefit is that you would have some nice combos like Dragon Hatchery(5dmg),Vampire Bordello (5dmg), any Hybrid Rooms(4dmg), and Dark Alter (4dmg). This would also balance out nicely with Jackpot stash gametext.


 
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Dave Lienau
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Hey guys.
Stumbled across this thread while searching for any 'unofficial' rules, figured I'd share my ideas!

Keep in mind, this involves blending BM1, Tools and BM2 together (when BM2 is released.)
We also play using the 'Unlimited Lives' rules that Brotherwise posted on their Kickstarter campaign for BM2.

Game set up as normal except:

-Each player is dealt 3 random boss cards. (Keep them secret!)
Each player chooses 2 of their 3 boss cards, one to be their Main Boss and one to be their SECRET mini-boss. Return the 3rd boss card to the boss deck. players reveal their MAIN Bosses at the same time and keep their mini-boss in their hand until later.
1. The mini-bosses will benefit from rooms that share a treasure types as their own, so keep this in mind when choosing.
2. The mini-boss will count as a room ONLY when it is in your dungeon, it is not a room card when it is in your hand.

-Each player is dealt 2 random item cards. (Keep them secret!)
Each player chooses one of the 2 item cards. Return the 2nd item card to the item deck, shuffle it and place it in town.
1. The item card is not used until later.
2. The item card's treasure type won't matter.
3. The item may or may not end up helping you, depending on whether your mini-boss earns it or not. Keep this in mind when choosing which one to keep.

Game continues as normal.

-Once your dungeon reaches 3 rooms (plus your main boss) you may build a mini-boss room.
1. The mini-boss room may be built over any room in your dungeon, regardless of treasure type or room type.
2. The mini-boss room does not NEED to be built over another room.
3. The mini-boss room will count as an ADVANCED MONSTER ROOM when it is in your dungeon, meaning if you want to build over it, you can do so in accordance with the standard building rules.
4. The turn you build your mini-boss room for the FIRST TIME: Add your mini-boss XP and your main boss XP order together to determine priority for that round. (This will mix things up a little from the regular order of play.) DO THIS ONLY ONCE PER GAME, ON THE TURN YOU BUILD YOU MINI-BOSS ROOM FOR THE FIRST TIME.
5. All mini-boss rooms have 4 wounds.
6. All mini-boss rooms deal 1 base damage.
7. Your mini-boss room gets +1 bonus damage for every other VISIBLE room in your dungeon (including your Main Boss) that share a treasure type with your mini-boss. So if your mini-boss lures Clerics (1 Ankh) and you have 3 OTHER Ankh symbols in your dungeon, your mini-boss will deal:
(1 base damage) + (3 Bonus damage) and so on.
8. When a hero survives your mini-boss room, place a wound marker (my friends and I use a D4 to track mini-boss wounds) on your mini-boss. That hero then continues through your dungeon and is processed as normal.
9. If your mini-boss suffers 4 wounds and is killed, remove the mini-boss from your dungeon and keep it in your scoring area. Then, reveal the item card that you were dealt at the start of the game (if your mini-boss hasn't already earned it for you...see Point 12) and place it face-up in town. Equip it to the first available hero that would be able to use it. This symbolizes the loot that the heroes have earned for killing a mini-boss!
10. Effects from spells or rooms that would 'destroy' a mini-boss room do not destroy it. Instead, that spell or effect will deal 1 wound to that mini-boss. If this is the final wound that would kill that mini-boss, follow the same rules as in point 9 for a mini-boss dying.
11. When a hero dies IN your mini-boss room, set that hero aside in your scoring area, separate from your soul count. (You could use a different color D4 to track your mini-boss kill count, but it is important that you track the heroes that your mini-boss kills!)
12. If 4 or more heroes of the same treasure type as your mini-boss die inside your mini-boss room, reveal the item card that is in your hand that you were dealt at the start of the game and place it in your dungeon. You may now use it as normal!

The game is over when all heroes have been processed.
Main Bosses do not have a wound limit when playing the 'Unlimited Lives' rules variant.
The player with the highest number of Souls MINUS Wounds (on both mini-boss and main boss) is the winner.
In the case of a tie, players add the total number of items they have earned from killing heroes to their Soul Count.

Try it out next time you guys play and let me know what you think!
Remember, it'll be a lot better when we have all the new BM2 cards in a 8 weeks or so!

 
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