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Subject: we need a Deck Building Game rss

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Bob Bob742
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Personally I prefer the CCG Illuminati New World Order far far far better than this version. It's just that I can get no one to play it these days.

Recently, the Deck Building Game has been invented.

Dominion being one. That Japanese game with the maids.
others.

Would it be feasible to create an Illuminati deck building game?
Dominion's got like 20 expansions.
One could imagine a new expansion for an I DBG come out every 2 years, even if some of them were only in those 23 card packs.
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Andrew Walters
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I like the power structure in Illuminati, and I'm having trouble seeing how you'd keep that in a deck-builder. Unless the groups you control are in a separate deck from the draw-and-play cards that you are building. This is an interesting idea...

Illuminati, either version, is one of the best games ever but the biggest update it needs is the topical humor. Either way, this game has a lot of miles left in it, I don't think it's done yet. Maybe after Ogre and Car Wars...
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Evil Bob
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I do like the Illuminati: Deluxe Edition and have all the expansions for it although I haven't played it in years.

One of the aspects I like is the direct player interaction. You can form alliances to take down the leader and backstab other people. Also, the game is asymmetrical in that everyone has different abilities in order to achieve their personal objectives. Power structures designs become important, as you don't want to expose any possible weaknesses and money management is also important.

What is it about the Illuminati CCG that you like so much? I haven't played it so I'm not familiar with it. Does it have any of the aspects that the Illuminati: Deluxe Edition have? How would you see these characteristics being ported into a deck building game?
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Andrew Walters
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Both traditional and CCG are great, but here are the advantages of the CCG:

• There's no money to keep track of.

• Since you're playing from a deck of sixty cards of your choice you can count on getting your combos; you won't end up playing Discordia and seeing only two weird groups come up the whole game.

• You can design around a strategy or theme: the Illuminati you play, the groups, the plots, they all make sense together, either in narrative terms or game play terms.

• Finally, designing your deck is fun. M:tG made millions for a reason.

The disadvantages of the CCG are:

• You need little tokens for actions and links.

• You need to buy a a lot of cards, like any CCG.

• You can't spontaneously sit down and play, you need to find peole who have built decks.

• If someone has a deck with a killer combo you're not prepared for, the game can be unbalanced. If someone has several copies of Nuclear Power Companies and no one at the table has the anti-nuclear protest group, for example.

I like both games, but don't play them as often as I'd like. If they updated the topical humor and modernized game play I'm not sure I'd play anything else...
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Ivo Pescia
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bbhalla wrote:
I do like the Illuminati: Deluxe Edition and have all the expansions for it although I haven't played it in years.

One of the aspects I like is the direct player interaction. You can form alliances to take down the leader and backstab other people. Also, the game is asymmetrical in that everyone has different abilities in order to achieve their personal objectives. Power structures designs become important, as you don't want to expose any possible weaknesses and money management is also important.

What is it about the Illuminati CCG that you like so much? I haven't played it so I'm not familiar with it. Does it have any of the aspects that the Illuminati: Deluxe Edition have? How would you see these characteristics being ported into a deck building game?


i am looking for games with a similar feat.
this:
I like is the direct player interaction. You can form alliances to take down the leader and backstab other people

Do you know any games with similar mechanics?
 
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Tyler
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One of the key points of Illuminati to me is the uniqueness of every power structure. The Boy Sprouts control the Post Office one game. That may never happen again, but it's memorable and feeds into one's memories and good feelings of playing.

In a deck-building game, however, the stock of cards available for drafting tends to be pretty static. In Dominion, everyone buys from the same piles of Smithies, Villages and Throne Rooms. I wonder if you could merge the two by taking a page from the Dark Ages expansion of Dominion, where in some stacks of cards, each one has a different effect.

That way, you could break the cards in the supply down into broad effects like Puppet Master, Minion, Media Outlet, and so on. Each card within a given category, however, is different. In the Puppet Master stack you would find Ronald Reagan, Rasputin and the Comte St. Germain. They would be broadly similar in overall effect, but have specialties, drawbacks and whatever else to distinguish them and make them better suited for some conspiracies over others.
 
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Brook Gentlestream
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I think this would involve getting rid of the power structure completely in favor of temporary power networks that only last a turn. So instead of "Grocers Union controls the News Media", you'd have a situation where you play a Grocers Union card, and that allows you to setup a plot consisting of the News Media and Defense Contractors. When a network is setup, you gain the benefits such as drawing cards, purchasing cards, etc, and then the network is all discarded at the end of the turn.

So instead of "this is the secret organization of the world showing what controls what", your table would be more like "this is the secret plot going on today between these organizations".

Not sure if that would be better or worse, but it would be different. It would require a lot less table space and probably make for a quicker game.


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Tyler
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lordrahvin wrote:
So instead of "this is the secret organization of the world showing what controls what", your table would be more like "this is the secret plot going on today between these organizations".

Not sure if that would be better or worse, but it would be different. It would require a lot less table space and probably make for a quicker game.



What you describe reminds me a lot of chaining actions in Dominion, in a way. Maybe each card is multifunctional. It can be a puppet master, a puppet, a method and a goal, with various values for each of those roles in creating a secret plot. Some cards are better suited for some roles, with stronger values or special abilities in those areas than others.
 
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Shawn Garbett
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DrFaust wrote:
One of the key points of Illuminati to me is the uniqueness of every power structure. The Boy Sprouts control the Post Office one game. That may never happen again, but it's memorable and feeds into one's memories and good feelings of playing.


When my eight year old daughter loudly proclaimed, "I will attack to control the Republicans using Mass Media with the aid of Girlie Magazines and the Illuminati!" it was a definitely a moment to remember.
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Aaron Morgan
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Experiens wrote:

I like is the direct player interaction. You can form alliances to take down the leader and backstab other people

Do you know any games with similar mechanics?


The mechanics are different, but Cosmic Encounter is a good backstabbing game with alliances and double-crossing.
 
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Benj Davis
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Rather than the Dominion model, perhaps something more like Ascension, where there's a churning flow of options in the middle.
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Steven McBride
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lordrahvin wrote:
I think this would involve getting rid of the power structure completely in favor of temporary power networks that only last a turn. So instead of "Grocers Union controls the News Media", you'd have a situation where you play a Grocers Union card, and that allows you to setup a plot consisting of the News Media and Defense Contractors. When a network is setup, you gain the benefits such as drawing cards, purchasing cards, etc, and then the network is all discarded at the end of the turn.

So instead of "this is the secret organization of the world showing what controls what", your table would be more like "this is the secret plot going on today between these organizations".

Not sure if that would be better or worse, but it would be different. It would require a lot less table space and probably make for a quicker game.




Why not both?

Use the game's spatial mechanic of the power structure. Instead of getting a +2 (or +5) bonus, any cards 3 (or 2) or more groups away from the Illuminati get discarded at the end of the turn. In essence, there would be 2 phases of the game: Setup your power structure, then build your deck. The two phases could be integrated by adding the rule that at any point in the game any captured card could be added to your deck or to your power structure.

It could even be made a certain amount of groups. Say, a 6 group limit to the power structure. Anything over six must be discarded at the end of your turn. And any six could remain, as long as the structure kept its integrity.
 
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Brook Gentlestream
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stemcider wrote:
It could even be made a certain amount of groups. Say, a 6 group limit to the power structure. Anything over six must be discarded at the end of your turn. And any six could remain, as long as the structure kept its integrity.


I like this. That sounds like a pretty interesting way to setup an asymmetrical conflict-based deck-building game.
 
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Bob Bob742
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I withdraw my initial proposal.

Too many deck building games.
I'm sure one could use that 'mechanic' in a larger game of some sort,
but there's probably too many built around solely that.
 
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Gamer D

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I'd definitely like to see an Illuminati themed deck building game ala Dominion, Ascension, Legendary, etc. I'd be willing to lose the organizational tree part of the game in favor of simply having the cards represent groups your illuminati controls. So as they come into your hand you can play them for various effects, with some groups having attack power and others having resources to help recruit other groups. Then give each player a unique Illuminati power that allows them to do something special during play.

Obviously the gameplay mechanics of such a game wouldn't be similar to the original Illuminati, but the feel and theme of such a deck builder could definitely encompass the spirit of Illuminati and if done right could be a lot of fun to play.
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