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Legendary: A Marvel Deck Building Game» Forums » General

Subject: Setup time rss

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Kaiwen Zhang
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How long does it take to setup this game? What I hate about Dominion is the long setup and clean up time. Just too much work to pull 10 packs out. It's also the reason why I like Ascension, because it has no setup at all!

This one sounds like it might be even worse than Dominon because the villain deck has to be seeded according to some table?
 
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J Brenner
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johncraven wrote:
How long does it take to setup this game? What I hate about Dominion is the long setup and clean up time. Just too much work to pull 10 packs out. It's also the reason why I like Ascension, because it has no setup at all!

This one sounds like it might be even worse than Dominon because the villain deck has to be seeded according to some table?


Yes, the game scales based on the number of players so there is some set up involved. Typically, it takes us about 5 minutes to determine the cards we want to use and then place them on the board. 5 minutes...
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Legendary follows the path of Thunderstone setup... while DC Comics Deckbuilding follows Ascension.
 
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BGFreakDag2PT wrote:
Legendary follows the path of Thunderstone setup... while DC Comics Deckbuilding follows Ascension.


ok, was getting confused because Tom Vasel said the opposite, but seems like there's a lot of difference between this and Ascension.
 
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Jaret Morgan
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Speaking of setup, I noticed that in the video I think it was 3 villain groups used in a solo game but I saw in the rule book that only 1 is used. Is that a typo? Seems like not enough cards....
 
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Myabe I'm in the minority, but it seems like the setup for this game takes an extraordinarily long time. The box is enormous (obviously built with expansions in mind), but the card organization is simply awful, with the flimsy Legendary cards there to separate the decks.

I like a box that makes sense, and this one doesn't.

Oh, and I played a solo game with only one villain group, and it did seem like not enough cards. There wasn't a lot of tension, because the first few turns were Scheme Twist cards and Venom (who I couldn't fight because I didn't have a Covert hero, which is the only kind that can stop him). I wanted more brawlin', man!
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BGFreakDag2PT wrote:
Legendary follows the path of Thunderstone setup... while DC Comics Deckbuilding follows Ascension.


In my opinion Legendary is much more similar to Ascension. You only have the option of recruiting or defeating what's drawn on the table. You don't have stacks of the same card just waiting for you.
 
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MantaScorp wrote:
Myabe I'm in the minority, but it seems like the setup for this game takes an extraordinarily long time. The box is enormous (obviously built with expansions in mind), but the card organization is simply awful, with the flimsy Legendary cards there to separate the decks.

I like a box that makes sense, and this one doesn't.

Oh, and I played a solo game with only one villain group, and it did seem like not enough cards. There wasn't a lot of tension, because the first few turns were Scheme Twist cards and Venom (who I couldn't fight because I didn't have a Covert hero, which is the only kind that can stop him). I wanted more brawlin', man!


The set up takes approx 5 minutes for a 5 player game. Not sure how the box doesn't make sense, this is the first I have heard that complaint. And I am curious how you are not familiar with set up if you had played the game.
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Chris Leder
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The problem with setup is that the cards are placed vertically in the trays, divided by the square Legendary mats. This makes the groups of cards difficult to tell apart. Sure, if you play often you'll remember, but if its a while between plays, it's much longer than 5 minutes.

Each game, you have to choose your Heroes, and search around to find that group and pull out the one you want.

Then you have to search the decks to find the Villain group and pull those cards out.

Then you have to search the decks again to find the Henchmen group and add that.

The Scheme and Scheme Twists and Master Strike are all in the box somewhere, and are hidden amidst the myriad decks. Find those cards and add them in, checking with the chart.

Be sure to also locate the groups of SHIELD Officers and Wounds and Bystanders. You'll have to pull out and look at various decks first, though.

And then you finally have your starting SHIELD cards. By this point, you've probably got all the decks strewn about the table, so by process of elimination, they're easy to find!

Is that easy setup? I vote no. The decks are too hard to distinguish easily from the way the box organizes them. Maybe the 5 minute setup with 5 players is with everyone pulling out decks at the same time and feverishly working together to build the board. I suppose that helps build the cooperative feel?

I can't believe that I'm the first to voice a concern that the box isn't well laid out. There's so much empty space! Am I doing it wrong? Should the cards NOT flop around in there when the top is on? How else should it be organized? Can someone post a pic?

To be clear, I have faith in the game, and I can't wait to play with a group. But the organization leaves me feeling unsettled.
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carnifex218 wrote:
BGFreakDag2PT wrote:
Legendary follows the path of Thunderstone setup... while DC Comics Deckbuilding follows Ascension.


In my opinion Legendary is much more similar to Ascension. You only have the option of recruiting or defeating what's drawn on the table. You don't have stacks of the same card just waiting for you.


He said set-up wise, not gameplay. Gamplaywise it has a combination of Thunderstone's dungeon and Ascension's buy area. The DC game is almost straight up Ascension style with a single currency and an extra super monster type stack.
 
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MantaScorp wrote:
The problem with setup is that the cards are placed vertically in the trays, divided by the square Legendary mats. This makes the groups of cards difficult to tell apart. Sure, if you play often you'll remember, but if its a while between plays, it's much longer than 5 minutes.

Each game, you have to choose your Heroes, and search around to find that group and pull out the one you want.

Then you have to search the decks to find the Villain group and pull those cards out.

Then you have to search the decks again to find the Henchmen group and add that.

The Scheme and Scheme Twists and Master Strike are all in the box somewhere, and are hidden amidst the myriad decks. Find those cards and add them in, checking with the chart.



Be sure to also locate the groups of SHIELD Officers and Wounds and Bystanders. You'll have to pull out and look at various decks first, though.

And then you finally have your starting SHIELD cards. By this point, you've probably got all the decks strewn about the table, so by process of elimination, they're easy to find!

Is that easy setup? I vote no. The decks are too hard to distinguish easily from the way the box organizes them. Maybe the 5 minute setup with 5 players is with everyone pulling out decks at the same time and feverishly working together to build the board. I suppose that helps build the cooperative feel?

I can't believe that I'm the first to voice a concern that the box isn't well laid out. There's so much empty space! Am I doing it wrong? Should the cards NOT flop around in there when the top is on? How else should it be organized? Can someone post a pic?

To be clear, I have faith in the game, and I can't wait to play with a group. But the organization leaves me feeling unsettled.


Hey Chris, I appreciate your concerns with the box/set up, I'm just a little curious how the box is such a hot button issue for you. We actually designed the box as gamers, meaning that we wanted to accommodate future releases in the same box. We here like to use one box as long as we can before moving card stock to a separate location. I personally like having room for expansions but it may not be for everyone.

I would agree that on the first couple of play throughs, set up may take longer than 5 minutes, simply because players may not be as familiar with the layout, but after that it shouldn't be an issue.

I am always open to having a healthy constructive discussion on the products we put out, so I am open to hearing your suggestions as to how you would have designed the packaging. I have provided a pic of how our game looks in the office and we have no issues with cards moving around in the box. This was tested heavily prior to production and I will tell you that the cards do not flop around in the box. The board placement is designed specifically to prevent this and it definitely does the job well.

Again, I am open to your thoughts on this but I cant have misinformation out there.

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William Cunningham
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I'm scheduled to get my copy today, if UPS tracking is to be believed, so take this suggestion with a grain of salt. However, if the dividers aren't labelled, is that something that can be added in an expansion?
 
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hepcat1 wrote:
I'm scheduled to get my copy today, if UPS tracking is to be believed, so take this suggestion with a grain of salt. However, if the dividers aren't labelled, is that something that can be added in an expansion?


The dividers are not labeled, and I am already working on a fix to that which I will announce soon. Keep up the good suggestions.
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William Cunningham
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Gamers. We're a fussy lot.

Edit: Okay, my copy just got here. In looking at the dividers, it almost seems as if they intended to label them, but for some reason never followed through. There's a white strip at the top of each divider that is begging to be labelled with a magic marker. Was DIY the intent?
 
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hepcat1 wrote:
Gamers. We're a fussy lot.

Edit: Okay, my copy just got here. In looking at the dividers, it almost seems as if they intended to label them, but for some reason never followed through. There's a white strip at the top of each divider that is begging to be labelled with a magic marker. Was DIY the intent?


Awesome news!! Glad your game has arrived and you can now become...wait for it....LEGENDARY!!

The original intent of the divider card was to have it labeled with Character name and Card name. There was an issue and this is what we ended up with. For now, the white space can be used to write in the information. Not great but consider it a band aid on a bullet wound.

Ill let the fans know when an alternate solution becomes available. Until then, keep using Rogue, she's awesome!
 
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MantaScorp wrote:
The problem with setup is that the cards are placed vertically in the trays, divided by the square Legendary mats. This makes the groups of cards difficult to tell apart. Sure, if you play often you'll remember, but if its a while between plays, it's much longer than 5 minutes.

Each game, you have to choose your Heroes, and search around to find that group and pull out the one you want.

Then you have to search the decks to find the Villain group and pull those cards out.

Then you have to search the decks again to find the Henchmen group and add that.

The Scheme and Scheme Twists and Master Strike are all in the box somewhere, and are hidden amidst the myriad decks. Find those cards and add them in, checking with the chart.

Be sure to also locate the groups of SHIELD Officers and Wounds and Bystanders. You'll have to pull out and look at various decks first, though.

And then you finally have your starting SHIELD cards. By this point, you've probably got all the decks strewn about the table, so by process of elimination, they're easy to find!

Is that easy setup? I vote no. The decks are too hard to distinguish easily from the way the box organizes them. Maybe the 5 minute setup with 5 players is with everyone pulling out decks at the same time and feverishly working together to build the board. I suppose that helps build the cooperative feel?

I can't believe that I'm the first to voice a concern that the box isn't well laid out. There's so much empty space! Am I doing it wrong? Should the cards NOT flop around in there when the top is on? How else should it be organized? Can someone post a pic?

To be clear, I have faith in the game, and I can't wait to play with a group. But the organization leaves me feeling unsettled.


Not trying to be mean, but it sounds like you don't have your box organized very well. Even with the top of the dividers blank, you should be able to easily find what you're looking for in a well organized system. i.e. Heroes, Villians, Scemes, alphabetical, etc. You make it sound like you just threw everything back in the box.
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Brenzor wrote:
Again, I am open to your thoughts on this but I cant have misinformation out there.



See, my box (in which I didn't throw everything willy-nilly, but actually tried to put some thought into what goes where) doesn't look like that at all. I can try to snap some pics later to illustrate.

I'm not trying to be rude or ignorant or ruin other people's opinions. I bought the game. I spent my own money on it, all $60. I'm an early adpoter who supports you. I believe in the game. What I say and believe is my opinion, not misinformation. Just want that to be clear.

In the image above, is that one complete set with only the components that come in the box? Because my cards take up much less room in the box. I can see already how I might be able to use the box in a different way, though.

And did you say that the board keeps all the cards from becoming dislodged? There's a chunk of the box that isn't covered by the board, and the way the card slots are configured relative to the empty spot leaves them open to movement.

I'm really not trying to start a war or be difficult. I really am on the game's side. I guess I'm just frustrated by the organization, and maybe I won't be the only one who feels this way, when people actually get their hands on the game. I don't feel the layout is intuitive, but maybe I'm just being obtuse.

For those who might feel the same as me, I think a good policy for the publisher would be to address it as early as possible, explaining how the dividers can be labeled and maybe even providing an organization diagram here on BGG.

Thanks!
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MantaScorp wrote:
Brenzor wrote:
Again, I am open to your thoughts on this but I cant have misinformation out there.



See, my box (in which I didn't throw everything willy-nilly, but actually tried to put some thought into what goes where) doesn't look like that at all. I can try to snap some pics later to illustrate.

I'm not trying to be rude or ignorant or ruin other people's opinions. I bought the game. I spent my own money on it, all $60. I'm an early adpoter who supports you. I believe in the game. What I say and believe is my opinion, not misinformation. Just want that to be clear.

In the image above, is that one complete set with only the components that come in the box? Because my cards take up much less room in the box. I can see already how I might be able to use the box in a different way, though.

And did you say that the board keeps all the cards from becoming dislodged? There's a chunk of the box that isn't covered by the board, and the way the card slots are configured relative to the empty spot leaves them open to movement.

I'm really not trying to start a war or be difficult. I really am on the game's side. I guess I'm just frustrated by the organization, and maybe I won't be the only one who feels this way, when people actually get their hands on the game. I don't feel the layout is intuitive, but maybe I'm just being obtuse.

For those who might feel the same as me, I think a good policy for the publisher would be to address it as early as possible, explaining how the dividers can be labeled and maybe even providing an organization diagram here on BGG.

Thanks!


Hey Chris, thanks for the update, I feel like were getting somewhere in this discussion. When we got our copy, the first thing we did was sleeve up. I cant play games unless their sleeved, just a personal thing. The sleeves do make up for the some of the empty space for sure.

That said, the board was designed to cover a large majority of the box, there is approx 1" on two of the cavities that are not covered. But the cards will only move if the box is violently shaken. We actually did this in house to test it out.

I really like the idea of a design diagram so maybe we will take some close up pics of how we actually organized our box. I appreciate the comments and thanks for being an early adopter.

PS: The original intent of the divider cards was to have the Character name and card name on them. There was an issue on our end and this is what we ended up with. They aren't great, I admit, but they do work and you can actually write the names on them. That said, I am working on a better fix for you guys and will give out more info as I have it.

-Brenzor
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William Cunningham
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It took me about 20 minutes to break down, sort and pack away my game last night. Well...30 minutes...I was throwing back a few while doing so.

But my first game was set up and broken back down in a surprisingly short amount of time.

Also, anyone making a deck builder these days should pay royalties to AEG. Their foam dividers find their way into every dbg I own at some point.
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Brenzor wrote:
I really like the idea of a design diagram so maybe we will take some close up pics of how we actually organized our box.


I'd be very appreciative of this. I'll be bringing Legendary to the game shop to play with people tomorrow evening. If I have a solid idea of how to organize the cards, and it makes perfect sense, I won't need to say another word on the subject!

Thanks for the discussion -- I'm glad we're getting somewhere!
 
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MantaScorp wrote:
Each game, you have to choose your Heroes, and search around to find that group and pull out the one you want.

Then you have to search the decks to find the Villain group and pull those cards out.

Then you have to search the decks again to find the Henchmen group and add that.


It's actually not as bad as you make it out to be. By your post, it appears that you need to search through the box 3+ times to get all of your cards. It's actually more like this:
- start looking through the decks. See some heroes. You'll need some, so pull them out. You see some villains. You'll need some, so pull them out. You see some henchmen. Take them, too.

There is no reason to look through and pull decks one at a time. Start at one end of the box, go through and take what you need.

Thankfully there is a board with a good layout, unlike most card games (this would have been very confusing, especially with the parts of the city, if the game didn't include the board).

Anyway, I fit all of my cards perfectly by only using the upper left and lower right segments of the box (this might not make sense depending on how you rotate it - I'm using the two smaller segments). There is a ton of room for expansions, which is very nice to see (since I hate having to carry multiple boxes in case I want to add some expansion content). I also didn't throw out the foam strip that came in the box. If you put that on top of the board before closing the box, it keeps all of the cards from flopping around.
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MantaScorp wrote:
Brenzor wrote:
I really like the idea of a design diagram so maybe we will take some close up pics of how we actually organized our box.


I'd be very appreciative of this. I'll be bringing Legendary to the game shop to play with people tomorrow evening. If I have a solid idea of how to organize the cards, and it makes perfect sense, I won't need to say another word on the subject!

Thanks for the discussion -- I'm glad we're getting somewhere!


Here's how I have my box set up. Maybe not the best solution, but it works quite well.

In the upper left well I have all of the starter decks. In the lower left well, I have all of the heroes. In the small vertical well next to the heroes, I have the Schemes, Master Strikes, and Plot Twist cards. Lower Right well (front to back), I have the Masterminds, Villains, and Minion Groups, and in the upper right well I have the Bystanders, SHIELD officers, and Wounds (in no particular order). Dead simple to find what I need for a game (even though finding a specific one is rather bothersome), and teardown is a straightforward and easy process. There's also almost exactly enough space in each of the areas for everything that goes there (I'll be switching over to a standard card box with the next expansion, so I would like to request both horizontal and vertical dividers be made, even if one or the other were simply print and play). While not the best divider I've seen for an individual game (that goes to Dominion, though it becomes rather useless with multiple expansions), it is certainly serviceable and not one I'll immediate be throwing out (like I did for the Penny Arcade DBG - that thing was bloody useless...).
 
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I love this game and the box is fine. I will post a picture when I get home.

I did the following:
1) bough 350 Blue Ultrapro deck protectors (you need 330) and 200 Red ones (need 170). Put the cards in their respective colour, Blue = All heroes, all shield cards, all wounds. Red = Everything else.
2) Wrote with a thin sharpie on the white part of each divider.

Hero #: Name
Hero 1: Cyclops
Hero 2: Emma Frost
Hero 3: Gambit

And so on and so forth. Did the same with Masterminds, Villans, Henchmen.

Schemes, Scheme Twists, Masterstrikes, Bystanders and Wounds all got their name on the divider cards.

I also seperated the SHIELD agents and troopers into 5 starter decks, labeling them decks 1 through 5. SHIELD Officers got their own divider.

Forces of Good on the left side. Forces of Evil on the Right. Wounds and Bystanders in the slots in the middle.

Starting a game:
Step 1: whip out my Galaxy Note, start random number generator. Find 5 numbers between 1-15, no repeats. Bang heroes decided.
Step 2: Random number 1 to 4. Bang Mastermind decided.
Step 3: Random number 1 to 7 = Villain group. Repeat as needed.
Step 4: Random number 1 to 4 = Henchmen group. Repeat as needed.
Step 5: Choose a scheme at random, fan them out for your friend to choose.
Step 6: Add 5 Masterstrikes
Step 7: Add the number of scheme twists on the scheme card.
Step 8: Pull out number of starter decks needed.
Step 9: add wounds and shield agents to the board.
Step 10: Add bystanders to the board and to the villain decks.
Step 11: Shuffle.
Step 12: Have fun.

Its super simple, takes maybe 3 minutes to set up, more time to shuffle than anything else. I honestly dont see what the problem is.

And before anyone says, "I dont want to have to buy deck protectors to make the box work..." I didnt. I bought them as my friends have nasty habits of spilling Coke and Dr. Pepper all over my expensive games.


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I got the game,

setup time is relatively quick. the only problem is shuffling the decks many times to ensure they are well randomized, since you're shuffling packs of cards into each other.

cleanup time can be an issue, you have to make sure everything is split down to their original packs. I can imagine a situation where you accidently misplace a card into another deck, and only realizing later some deck is "missing" 1 card, then having to look through the rest of the cards to find where you misplace it.
 
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Elohel wrote:
I love this game and the box is fine. I will post a picture when I get home.

I did the following:
1) bough 350 Blue Ultrapro deck protectors (you need 330) and 200 Red ones (need 170). Put the cards in their respective colour, Blue = All heroes, all shield cards, all wounds. Red = Everything else.
2) Wrote with a thin sharpie on the white part of each divider.

Hero #: Name
Hero 1: Cyclops
Hero 2: Emma Frost
Hero 3: Gambit

And so on and so forth. Did the same with Masterminds, Villans, Henchmen.

Schemes, Scheme Twists, Masterstrikes, Bystanders and Wounds all got their name on the divider cards.

I also seperated the SHIELD agents and troopers into 5 starter decks, labeling them decks 1 through 5. SHIELD Officers got their own divider.

Forces of Good on the left side. Forces of Evil on the Right. Wounds and Bystanders in the slots in the middle.

Starting a game:
Step 1: whip out my Galaxy Note, start random number generator. Find 5 numbers between 1-15, no repeats. Bang heroes decided.
Step 2: Random number 1 to 4. Bang Mastermind decided.
Step 3: Random number 1 to 7 = Villain group. Repeat as needed.
Step 4: Random number 1 to 4 = Henchmen group. Repeat as needed.
Step 5: Choose a scheme at random, fan them out for your friend to choose.
Step 6: Add 5 Masterstrikes
Step 7: Add the number of scheme twists on the scheme card.
Step 8: Pull out number of starter decks needed.
Step 9: add wounds and shield agents to the board.
Step 10: Add bystanders to the board and to the villain decks.
Step 11: Shuffle.
Step 12: Have fun.

Its super simple, takes maybe 3 minutes to set up, more time to shuffle than anything else. I honestly dont see what the problem is.

And before anyone says, "I dont want to have to buy deck protectors to make the box work..." I didnt. I bought them as my friends have nasty habits of spilling Coke and Dr. Pepper all over my expensive games.




This sounds awesome, and doesn't need sleeved cards to work. Just numbering everything and using a randomizer is a very good idea. Thank you.
 
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