Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
20 Posts

Puzzle Strike (Third Edition)» Forums » General

Subject: So is this game sold anywhere other than Sirlin Games? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Weston Ferguson
United States
Everett
Washington
flag msg tools
I've looked around and it seems no one has copies of third edition or the shadows expansion. Just Sirlin Games. Are any local or online shops going to carry it or has there been a complete kibosh on sales anywhere other than direct?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jonathan C
United States
Iowa
flag msg tools
badge
"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep, to gain what he cannot lose."
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
WestonTheFox wrote:
I've looked around and it seems no one has copies of third edition or the shadows expansion. Just Sirlin Games. Are any local or online shops going to carry it or has there been a complete kibosh on sales anywhere other than direct?


Yes. They carry it (or at least havea few copies on order) at our little gamestore in Cedar Rapids, IA (Battlezone), but I doubt that it is sold at a discount. In fact, I am petty sure it's like $60 or $70. Your best bet is from Sirlin, or finding a used copy online.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Weston Ferguson
United States
Everett
Washington
flag msg tools
Hmm interesting.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Sirlin
United States
California
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
My games are available online at www.sirlingames.com (worldwide shipping) as well as Amazon in the US. In addition, brick-and-mortar stores are welcome and encouraged to carry it. There's a list of the participating stores around the world at www.gamestorelocator.com. You can see if your local stores are listed there.

If your local store does not carry my games, you can give them that link and they can sign up there. Your local store can also get the games from distributors in the usual way (ACD in the US, Lion Rampant in Canada, Brave New World in Germany).
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Smurf-o-Deth
United States
Brownsville
Kentucky
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mb
Sirlin Games also has a deal with Game Salute, which is how it ends up in some FLGS. No OLGS will be carrying it, though, so you'll have to pay MSRP if you buy it new. A lot comes in that box for $50, though.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Weston Ferguson
United States
Everett
Washington
flag msg tools
smurfodeth wrote:
Sirlin Games also has a deal with Game Salute, which is how it ends up in some FLGS. No OLGS will be carrying it, though, so you'll have to pay MSRP if you buy it new. A lot comes in that box for $50, though.


Oh yeah I know, I was just asking a question. I own 2nd edition and I have been undecided as to what to do next.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
K
United States
Oakland
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I've seen it locally, I think. Haven't really been looking close enough lately to know which edition it's been, but I know a few stores in my area have carried Second Edition fairly regularly in the past (they're on that store finder link Sirlin posted)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rabid Schnauzer
msg tools
WestonTheFox wrote:
Oh yeah I know, I was just asking a question. I own 2nd edition and I have been undecided as to what to do next.


Personally, I recommend picking up PS: Shadows as a higher priority than updating 2nd edition to 3rd edition. 3rd edition is an incremental improvement over 2nd Rebalanced while Shadows is a whole new game that follows the same rules.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Weston Ferguson
United States
Everett
Washington
flag msg tools
How clunky is it to attempt to fix my 2nd edition? I have a list of rules and chip changes sitting here, I mean you can do the crash to anyone and the danger time fairly easily, even implement the -$1 on the combine without much effort. My concern is that I wouldn't want to take the time to explain to everyone all of these chips do different things, even though that's not what they say on the chips.

So will the game become drastically unbalanced if I just change the main rules and leave all the second edition chips the same?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Christian K
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I think unless you play at tournament level, the game will not be incredibly unbalanced, so shadows is clearly the way to go. It is awesome by the way and I think you will love it.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Apollo Andy
United States
Fort Worth
Texas
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
From 2nd to 3rd the main balance change was -$1 combine.
Secondary balance changes to implement would be Arg's Hex and Rook's Stone Wall.
All the other balance changes are kind of gravy.

There were also a lot of red chips (and others) that were reworded to support the new FFA rules, but those are easily changed intuitively.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
K
United States
Oakland
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
WestonTheFox wrote:
How clunky is it to attempt to fix my 2nd edition? I have a list of rules and chip changes sitting here, I mean you can do the crash to anyone and the danger time fairly easily, even implement the -$1 on the combine without much effort. My concern is that I wouldn't want to take the time to explain to everyone all of these chips do different things, even though that's not what they say on the chips.

So will the game become drastically unbalanced if I just change the main rules and leave all the second edition chips the same?


If you have 2nd edition + Upgrade Pack it doesn't even really need "fixing", the main draws of 3rd edition are the -$1 Combine (easily implemented as you said, and comes with Shadows expansion) and stronger Puzzle Chips which make the game more FUN and help fill the void left by the nerfed Combine. But I agree with you that using that simply explaining to people what chips have changed would be much work/clunky

People who have used Upgraded 2nd edition + Shadows seem to be happy enough. The only drastic imbalance IMO is that if playing the new FFA mode where you can react for other players, Rook's Stone Wall reaction is too much

P.S. A good idea I saw posted on here recently for "upgrading" your Puzzle Chips to 3rd edition is to buy the randomizer cards from Sirlin Games. Put those randomizer cards underneath the corresponding bank stacks. That is a good way to errata the chips, as it is large, attractive, magnified image of what the new chips do. Everyone can see at a glance how One of Each's price is really 5. Just explain that the large randomizer card on the table overrides whats written on the chip.

The reason this works quite naturally is because I've found that many newer players prefer to read the text on the randomizer cards to refer to an effect anyway, since it's so much bigger and easier to read
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Damon Asher
United States
Jefferson
MA
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I really liked the -$1 change, so I traded away my second edition set (with upgrade pack) in anticipation of this one. However, I wasn't counting on paying full MSRP.

I like this game, but not so much to put up with the questionable timing of new version releases (they had to know that 3rd edition was coming at the same time they were selling the upgrade pack) and the Game Salute-only distribution.

EDIT: David Sirlin replies below that he was not working on 3rd edition when the upgrade pack came out, and I take him at his word! Apparently those 2 things didn't happen as closely together as I remember.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Sirlin
United States
California
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
Just want to point out that it's factually incorrect that 3rd Edition was worked on before the Upgrade Pack shipped. We worked on the shadows expansion during that time, and only late in shadows development (after the upgrade pack) did we decide to go ahead with 3rd edition. There was a year between the release of the upgrade pack and the 3rd edition / shadows. The new combine was not even thought of until months after the upgrade pack, but testing showed that it was too good to pass up.

The releases are not "questionable" either. When the competitive community was fading in 2nd edition, I think it was vital to give them what they needed, rather than...not doing that, so that's what the upgrade pack did. And mission accomplished, it really improved the gameplay and kind of saved the game from dying. Months into that, the lack of -$1 combine was restricting design space on the *expansion* and the base set is strategically better with that change anyway, so we decided to go forward with it rather than forgo known improvements to the game. So at each step it was "totally ignore what would make the most money and instead do what makes the best possible game we can make at this moment in time." I think by saying "questionable release dates," your implying the opposite: implying that tricky money grabs are at work, rather than the my actual plan of putting game quality first, always.

It's a lot more profitable to abandon base sets after they are first released and only make more and more expansions. I just can't bear to do it that way. The 3rd edition is extremely polished, and we aren't even working on anything at all for it anymore, so I'm pretty excited about the quality of game we've arrived at. The latest version has been played online for over 6 months now by the hardest of the hardcore and has held up great. No changes have been needed or planned in that whole time.

I'm not sure what the complaint about Game Salute is. The availability is fine, as you can get the games anywhere in the world from sirlingames.com (and amazon.com in the US). And you can get it from local game stores all over the world too, with a list a gamestorelocator.com. There are also official distributors in the US, Canada, and Germany that game stores can order form in addition to direct from Game Salute. Players can either support the developer more by ordering direct, or support their local game stores more the other way, both of which are great. Seems like you just think the price should be lower? I'm pretty excited it got down to $50 rather than $60 for 2nd Edition, and that it includes more stuff in the box now than ever.
10 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Damon Asher
United States
Jefferson
MA
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks David. It's good to hear more about your development timeline. I do think it was valid to raise the question however, hence the "questionable".

I was able to purchase 2nd edition online at a discount with free shipping. Third edition with shipping would cost me almost double, so that's a bit of a sting.

I very much approve of your desire to keep improving the game though. I just regret the way you changed your distribution for this latest edition. Someday I'll probably get my hands on 3rd ed though.


 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Sirlin
United States
California
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
Thanks, and yes questions are generally good, ha.

That was a real disaster for the brief time at the beginning of 2010 that someone sold the first printing of Yomi and also Puzzle Strike to online discounters. We were able to correct that way back then and nothing of mine has been sold that way ever since (which is sort of why I'm even still in business...)

Glad you like the games at least! And the new combine in Puzzle Strike. You could always play the online version at www.fantasystrike.com. We're working on a huge overhaul of the UI for the online version, it's going to look much nicer. I'm not sure when we'll be able to roll that out, but possibly January. A lot of other new stuff will go online at that same time, such as a new UI for Yomi and a first pass at Flash Duel online, too.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Hey David, so I'm sure you're sick of getting asked this, but is there any update on possibilities for an iOS version of your games?

Any idea what those would cost to fund?

Have you thought about doing a similar thing for iOS as you did with your physical games; that is, release Flash Duel first (as it's the simplest/easiest to implement) and use the proceeds from that to bankroll the harder stuff?
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Sirlin
United States
California
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
It's looking pretty expensive. Six figures for an iOS version of Yomi that is done the right way. I could go overseas for cheap development, but then it's much much more of my time to babysit every little thing. By "doing it right" I am also referring to adding a fully features singled player mode, as that is pretty important on a mobile platform for a game that can only be played synchronously (asynch will not work for Yomi). And I also mean cross-platform play between web and iOS (playing and also buying stuff cross-platform), which is not trivial technically.

So it's just been hard to get that going, and I wonder what return on that possibly bankruptcy-inducing investment would be, compared to a smaller investment of going cross-platform with kongregate first, or something, to reach a new audience. Not really sure what will happen. Definitely the first set of upgrades are going to be on our own site as I mentioned in my previous post. Still figuring out what to do *after* that launches.
8 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matt
United States
Alabama
flag msg tools
badge
This space intentionally left blank.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Sirlin wrote:
It's looking pretty expensive. Six figures for an iOS version of Yomi that is done the right way.


Holy crap. That sounds crazy, but I really have no idea what the budget usually is for that sort of thing. At the same time, I know when you say "the right way," you mean the absolute best and nothing less, so I imagine that figure is on the high end of the spectrum. For comparison, about how much money was put into the version of Yomi that's on Fantasystrike.com?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Sirlin
United States
California
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
For fantasystrike.com we went the route of spending as little as possible and instead having it take a really long time to create. And even then, I recently spent more than we've ever made on the site on the next round of (totally awesome) UI and usability upgrades that you guys haven't seen yet.

Regarding iOS, I'm actually really trying to make that happen. I think the make it more doable, I'm leaning toward initially launching without an entirely new 1p mode, just with the tutorial and bot we have now, but getting the multiplayer working, looking good, and cross-playform with the web. Then reinvest the revenue from that to add a new 1p mode and other updates. Nothing solid yet, but we're getting a little closer.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.