Vanja Grujic
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In recent games, we found that Centurions are too strong. That is, after 3 games in a row lost to Cents, humans put all their resources to stop Centurions, and still lost to them.

Any idea how to weaken them and not ruin the game?
 
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M. B. Downey
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Don't use the Cylon Fleet Board.
 
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Allan Clements
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Kill them before they board, if you don't succeed, put more faith in the President and save those Authorize Brutal Force cards for the late game.

Even with Exodus and the CFB, wins by Centurions are still the least common for me.
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Kamakaze wrote:
Kill them before they board...


I think that is the best solution when using the Cylon Fleet Board. In just the base game or Pegasus, Heavy Raiders are almost negligible, because you can just ignore them and then jump away. When using the Cylon Fleet Board, you can't ignore them. It's still a 7-8 to kill, but when they're in space you have things like Maximum Firepower, CAG (both Apollo's OPG and the title card), or just plain Command to get more shots on them than in the Armory against a Centurion.

I was going to also include Expert Pilot and Hotshot in that, but those would work at the Armory as well (with a discard for Starbuck, anyway).
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Kamakaze wrote:
Even with Exodus and the CFB, wins by Centurions are still the least common for me.
it certainly varies there... in some games, people don't actually lose to centurions, but they spend too many actions/turns taking care of them that something else slips through. One game, someone was flabbergasted to see that they lost to centurions despite already killing 5 of them. In another game, the cylons' plan was "if the humans destroy the raiders, we activate centurions. If they play ABF, we activate raiders to destroy those civvies".

Speaking of which....

Kamakaze wrote:
Kill them before they board, if you don't succeed, put more faith in the President and save those Authorize Brutal Force cards for the late game.
If you're also playing with Pegasus, Pegasus adds +9 Qcards, vs. Exodus' +3 Qcards to the deck. Using Roslin's OPG may be worth using as a 'hail mary', while Tory's OPG to set up for ABF while seeing if there's anything else of use in there. Still, those extra cards in the deck does make ABF more of a longshot.

Speaking of which....

Dexter345 wrote:
Kamakaze wrote:
Kill them before they board...


I think that is the best solution when using the Cylon Fleet Board. In just the base game or Pegasus, Heavy Raiders are almost negligible, because you can just ignore them and then jump away. When using the Cylon Fleet Board, you can't ignore them. It's still a 7-8 to kill, but when they're in space you have things like Maximum Firepower, CAG (both Apollo's OPG and the title card), or just plain Command to get more shots on them than in the Armory against a Centurion.

I was going to also include Expert Pilot and Hotshot in that, but those would work at the Armory as well (with a discard for Starbuck, anyway).
Anders' OPG comes in handy here... someone deliberately came back as Anders just so he could use his OPG to garauntee the cent's destruction.

With both Hangar Deck and Command damaged, a skill check was deliberately spiked with red and Protect The Fleet just to get an unmanned viper shot at a heavy.
 
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Pieter
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With Base Game and Pegasus, Centurions are a pushover. With Exodus, indeed, they are a huge threat, especially if a Cylon draws Cylon Intruders. If that happens and it cannot be dealt with using skill cards, there is not much that the humans can do. For me, this is one more reason to positively hate Exodus.

If you really want to weaken them a bit, I propose you allow the humans to reroll an Armory die if they play a Maximum Firepower. Or (to make it even more easy) allow them to use Maximum Firepower to activate the Armory four times.
 
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Flyboy Connor wrote:
With Base Game and Pegasus, Centurions are a pushover. With Exodus, indeed, they are a huge threat, especially if a Cylon draws Cylon Intruders. If that happens and it cannot be dealt with using skill cards, there is not much that the humans can do. For me, this is one more reason to positively hate Exodus.

If you really want to weaken them a bit, I propose you allow the humans to reroll an Armory die if they play a Maximum Firepower. Or (to make it even more easy) allow them to use Maximum Firepower to activate the Armory four times.
Wait, why are cents so much worse in Exo? B/c when you play with CFB, you can't just jump to cleanslate any heavies that are about to board?
 
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Partly because people ignore them since they were never a threat before, but also because every heavy raider icon will spawn a new one if the main game board has no ships on it.

If you do want to make them slightly weaker the simplest solution is to only have new ones spawn in the 2 sectors farthest from the launch areas on the CFB. This will give you much more time to kill them, but you still do need to kill them.

I believe if they start in those locations the human players will have 7 turns to eliminate them (assuming all crisis cards get heavy raider icons which is unlikely)

Revealed cylons can of course push them forwards but that is all they will be doing on their turns.
 
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Authorisation of Brutal Force is the most reliable way to take out a Centurion if you've been digging through Quorum. Even if you haven't touched the Quorum all game, there's still a better than 1 in 4 chance of finding an ABF in the top four cards, and the odds climb with every Q-card drawn (unlike using the Armory, where the odds are fixed).

Next best is Maximum Firepower before they board, which lets you get four times as many shots as the Armory - on average, one MF will destroy one Heavy Raider or three Raiders - the current CAG title-holder, with a wingman and one MF can get up to six shots off an Executive Order - nine with a double MF - compared to two for someone in the Armory.

Executive Orders played on someone in the Armory are the minimum you should be trying in order to kill Centurions.


It's also possible that your group are just the unlucky ones to get hit by Centurion losses - if you say that one game in twenty will end in a Centurion loss (of PBF games 204-303, at least 6 ended with a Centurion loss, which is more than 1 in 20) then of all BSG playgroups which have played at least 3 games, 1 in 8000 would be expected to have lost their last three games to Centurions. I don't know what the actual number of BSG playgroups out there is, but there are 1588 fans on BGG, so it's not unreasonable that there would be a playgroup including a BGG member that racked up three consecutive Centurion losses at some point in their playing of the game.
 
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rmsgrey wrote:
Authorisation of Brutal Force is the most reliable way to take out a Centurion if you've been digging through Quorum. Even if you haven't touched the Quorum all game, there's still a better than 1 in 4 chance of finding an ABF in the top four cards, and the odds climb with every Q-card drawn (unlike using the Armory, where the odds are fixed).


ABF is actually the reason I would NOT house rule centurions to make them weaker. Instant kill, and you hardly ever lose population.

With Exodus' whopping 3 Qcards to the deck, it's 2 out of 20 cards you're fishing for. However, Resignation can mulligan up to 13 Qcards at once (reasonable average I'll make up is probably 8 cards), which is about half the entire Qcard deck, so while that's swingy, having it can save you, while not getting mean ABF is off the table.

If Pegasus Qcards are also in, it's 2 out of 29 Qcards. While the odds are still worse in finding ABF, Civilian Self Defense does let you destroy a heavy raider and is one way to stem the threat of centurions.
 
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ackmondual wrote:
Resignation can mulligan up to 13 Qcards at once


I don't see how, unless you're ignoring the hand limit or abusing State of Emergency (SoE+XO lets you mulligan up to 14 at once; chaining SoE or ignoring hand limit lets you redraw all but 1 card...)

Without State of Emergency involved, the best I can see is activating the office twice to draw 3, then playing Resignation, leaving 12 cards in hand to mulligan...
 
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rmsgrey wrote:
ackmondual wrote:
Resignation can mulligan up to 13 Qcards at once


I don't see how, unless you're ignoring the hand limit or abusing State of Emergency (SoE+XO lets you mulligan up to 14 at once; chaining SoE or ignoring hand limit lets you redraw all but 1 card...)

Without State of Emergency involved, the best I can see is activating the office twice to draw 3, then playing Resignation, leaving 12 cards in hand to mulligan...
Yeah, it's 12. My math was a bit off. My point still stands that it's a whole bunch of cards, and that 12 vs. 13 cards was rather trivial.
 
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Vanja Grujic
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No, we like Cylon Board so much more than old rules that we are unwilling to change that back.

Also, 3 games were straigh up Cent loses, one was that the human were dealing with 2-3 of them, and when they finally managed it, something else fail (maybe even Galactica destroyed?) as Cents needed all the attention.

It could be a streak of bad luck, and one certanly was (with Cavil and relevant Supercrisis drawn) - but often for revealed cylons it seems best just to force Centaurions.

I was thinking of something simple, like, they die on 6-8 instead? Though maximum firepower thing is OK too. Kamekaze's solution is nice too, it is certanly worst when they appear right next to the launch areas.
 
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M. B. Downey
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Not using Cylon leaders would also help a great deal.
 
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Grujah wrote:
No, we like Cylon Board so much more than old rules that we are unwilling to change that back.

Also, 3 games were straigh up Cent loses, one was that the human were dealing with 2-3 of them, and when they finally managed it, something else fail (maybe even Galactica destroyed?) as Cents needed all the attention.

It could be a streak of bad luck, and one certanly was (with Cavil and relevant Supercrisis drawn) - but often for revealed cylons it seems best just to force Centaurions.

I was thinking of something simple, like, they die on 6-8 instead? Though maximum firepower thing is OK too. Kamekaze's solution is nice too, it is certanly worst when they appear right next to the launch areas.
Centurion losses (both direct and indirect have still comprised) the minority of our games.... still behind loss by pop/Morale, with damage somewhere behidn.
 
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Lane Taylor
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In our games, whenever there's a real centurion threat (more than one boarder), the humans have always just gotten one person in the armory, then use XO, with Strategic Planning (I think that's the right one) to maximize their chances. I think I've only ever seen one (base game only) lose to a centurion boarding party, and there were something like 4 boarded at the same time.
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