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The Great Zimbabwe» Forums » General

Subject: Is anyone pimping their copy? rss

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Kai Teo
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Was thinking the monument discs can have the logo of the tribe (corrected) on them
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J C Lawrence
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Poker chips instead of cattle.
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Eric Flood
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duckizz wrote:
Was thinking the monument discs can have the logo of the god on them


What if you choose atheism?
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Jon
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blueatheart wrote:
duckizz wrote:
Was thinking the monument discs can have the logo of the god on them


What if you choose atheism?


I suspect the other Eric means "tribal symbol" or whatever you call the image that adorns the square with the tribe name on it; the thing that is used in the first stage bidding process.
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clearclaw wrote:
Poker chips instead of cattle.

So very wrong.

shake

However, I readily admit that Splotter screwed up by not taking the way that bidding works into account and provide you with more "1 cattle" tokens. But jeez, you still gotta go with the thematic cattle/rhino tokens and not sterile poker chips!
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J C Lawrence
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"Sterile" is an advantage. I use poker chips for scoring in Ra too. Just as in TGZ they're easier to use and are more readily seen/counted.
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Kai Teo
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yes sorry i corrected myself
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Kai Teo
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but sigh it detracts from the "theme" when you use poker chips...
or maybe if we buy enough agricola that expansion with all the animal-eeples, we can use those ;p
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Jon
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clearclaw wrote:
Poker chips instead of cattle.


I would only count "poker chips" as "pimping the copy" if you were willing to (1) throw out the default cattle, and (2) storing your chips within the Zimbabwe box.

If you're simply swaping poker chips for "native currency" and have one set of chips for multiple games, then you're not really "pimping the copy," you're using what you already have and are familiar with.
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J C Lawrence
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But they're so much better!
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Jon
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I don't disagree. In fact, I'd like to have my own set of chips for a variety of games.

However, if I had a set of chips, while I might use them with Zimbabwe, I don't think it would be a necessary thing to do, nor do I think it would enhance the overall aestehtics of the game.

(I do think, of course, that it would enhance moving money around the table; on the other hand, I don't think poker chips add to the theme at all.)

If Zimbabwe was the only game you owned, it was all you wanted to play, and you would never play another game, then the cost of decent poker chips relative to the enhancement of this one game I don't think is worth it. The cattle isn't as bad as the paper money in Power Grid!

If you have poker chips already, then sure, use them with Zimbabwe, why not? But the cattle tokens supplied with the game aren't bad and are good enough for the majority of people, I think.
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Mikko Saari
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Only problem with the cattle is that there's not enough of the silver cows. More would be handy. Now the bidding gets a bit clumsy at some point, when you have to start making change back and forth to get enough silver cattle.

But to get back to the current topic, I don't see much need to change the components. Tribal symbols on monuments, well, maybe, but I think it might make the already fairly busy board busier and that's not good.

Maybe new God and Specialist cards with LARGE symbols or text that clearly tells what they do, but that's not a huge problem either once everybody has played a game or two.
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J C Lawrence
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ravenskana wrote:
However, if I had a set of chips, while I might use them with Zimbabwe, I don't think it would be a necessary thing to do, nor do I think it would enhance the overall aestehtics of the game.


Poker chips improve the game in two regards for me. First the intellectual efficiency of the poker chip representation is attractive and mildly subversively delightful (along with a faintly implied relation to kraals), and secondly the tactility and presentation of my ProGen 80s (my preferred chips) is appreciated in regards to the material science behind the chips, the industrial design of the chips themselves, and the information design in their exact presentation. There's more than enough plexing of signals there for me to like.

Quote:
(I do think, of course, that it would enhance moving money around the table; on the other hand, I don't think poker chips add to the theme at all.)


Shrug.

Quote:
The cattle isn't as bad as the paper money in Power Grid!


The cattle are fiddly, poorly differentiated by colour, and hard to read from across the table. They're perhaps not as bad as paper money, but they're not much better if so.
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Jon
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I don't think you've used paper money recently enough to be a reliable judge, JC. I also think the two colors are easy to tell apart.

I'll agree calculating one's position with chips is easier than the default cattle, especially if you're used to reading ProGen 80s because you use them with everything you can. I don't think Splotter is at fault for providing the supplied cattle versus offering a set of decent poker chips instead. laugh

My larger point is to the OP of the thread. No, I haven't pimped my copy, nor do I see an obvious need to do so. The supplied components work fine. Mikko might have a point on the amount of silver cattle, but I've only seen that once in my plays so far, and at that moment, it was easy enough to bank-exchange silver for gold cattle.

Of course, I wouldn't complain if I were to play someone else's copy where they decided to "pimp" something or other; I just don't see a need to do that myself.
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J C Lawrence
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ravenskana wrote:
I don't think you've used paper money recently enough to be a reliable judge, JC.


It has been some years, but I doubt that's relevant.

Quote:
I don't think Splotter is at fault for providing the supplied cattle versus offering a set of decent poker chips instead.


I agree and I've not suggested otherwise.
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Jon
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clearclaw wrote:
ravenskana wrote:

I don't think Splotter is at fault for providing the supplied cattle versus offering a set of decent poker chips instead.


I agree and I've not suggested otherwise.


Hrm. Eric Teo started the thread asking if anyone has "pimped their copy," which honestly, I think is a bad way of phrasing things, but I'll switch to "enhancing and improving" the default set of components.

I see two ways to approach this. One is to "quick improve" the game with a different set of components that one has readily avaliable. The second is to look, hunt, find, and acquire new components that will either add to the immersion of the game or replace substandard components.

In the case of currency, there's reasonable precedent, in my experience, where the supplied components are not adequate. For example, in Power Grid, the paper money is usable, but it annoys me, and I'm not easily annoyed by such things. I have some Martin Wallace games (London and Age of Industry) that have "tiddlywinks" (I think that's the right term, I might be wrong) currency by default that seem to annoy a lot of people but I think it is tolerable.

I probably have too much free time this evening, but in this thread, with the question put forth among the denizens of BGG, your statement of your preference for poker chips I didn't think well served those who have not had a chance to encounter the components supplied with the game.

You haven't suggested that Splotter is at fault for providing cattle versus poker chips. However, I'm guessing you probably haven't played with the cattle for a full game. Why would you? You have cool chips, they work, and are a known quantity, so why not use the chips? I don't think that gives one a working opinion of the cattle supplied with the game though. (If you have played a full game with the default cattle, I'll apologize, but then I'll wonder why you did, when you most likely had chips you would have preferred to use instead.)

I suppose I'm inferring too much into the original question. I thought of it as "You got the game, played it, and want to improve it, what do you do?" and for just this one game, I don't see any need to change anything. If I have poker chips or something else lying around, sure, I'll give it a try, but I don't think Splotter's presentation here is lacking anything.

By the way, most of this reponse isn't really to JC -- I suspect most of this is noise to him, sorry for that -- it's to the folks that are interested in this game but haven't seen it in person yet. For those people: there's nothing wrong with the components supplied by Splotter. Enjoy the game!
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J C Lawrence
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ravenskana wrote:
I see two ways to approach this. One is to "quick improve" the game with a different set of components that one has readily avaliable. The second is to look, hunt, find, and acquire new components that will either add to the immersion of the game or replace substandard components.


At the very least components don't have to be substandard or less-thematic/immersive in order for a change to be an improvement on some axis. For instance components could be changed to add an additional value not previously expressed (perhaps a colour or tactile aesthetic), or to alter the balance of values in the components without entirely adding or subtracting any qualities (eg an equivalent but more localised presentation).

Quote:
You haven't suggested that Splotter is at fault for providing cattle versus poker chips.


Far from it. If I were to argue in the area, it would be that game publishers continue to provide currency in their games, and to thereby encourage a common model of assuming that game players possess a common set of components, just as pen-and-paper are assumed by many card games. In this line DTG's games are offered without paper money for a discount and the majority of orders are in fact for games without paper money. And yet! And yet a goodly number of them explicitly specific paper money as well...

Quote:
However, I'm guessing you probably haven't played with the cattle for a full game. Why would you?


Actually, I have. I was far from my chips at the time so we played with the default components. My opinion is not uninformed by direct experience. I've also used the tiddlywinks of Wallace games (cf Age of Steam) for several years and am not particularly averse to them there. I think their use in Brass is ridiculous due to the value of stacking chips for action costs, but that's a separate matter (and a game I don't play).
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Jon
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clearclaw wrote:
[q="ravenskana"]
Quote:
However, I'm guessing you probably haven't played with the cattle for a full game. Why would you?


Actually, I have. I was far from my chips at the time so we played with the default components. My opinion is not uninformed by direct experience. I've also used the tiddlywinks of Wallace games (cf Age of Steam) for several years and am not particularly averse to them there. I think their use in Brass is ridiculous due to the value of stacking chips for action costs, but that's a separate matter (and a game I don't play).


Ah, thanks for the clarification! I'm slightly surprised you didn't have your chips with you at the time. My current thinking is once I invest in chips they will be present with me from that point forth, so I assumed you would always have yours with you. laugh

As a tangent based on writing I'm not quoting, I've occasionally thought it would be ... uh, "neat," I guess ... if certain games came in two distinct formats. A regular format and a cheaper format that assumed one has a couple dozen cubes in four different colors so they wouldn't have to supply the cubes themselves. I'm fairly sure without checking my owned games that I have several games that use red, blue, green, yellow wooden cubes or discs for some purpose or other, and there's a lot of redundancy there.

Wow, I've tangented far off the original topic. Oops?
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J C Lawrence
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ravenskana wrote:
I'm slightly surprised you didn't have your chips with you at the time. My current thinking is once I invest in chips they will be present with me from that point forth, so I assumed you would always have yours with you.


I usually do. However I was visiting, I didn't bring the chips in with me, I parked distantly, and there was threat of rain. Suffice that I weaseled.
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The use of chips (without denominations, too) is one of the few topics about which I agree with clearclaw. It does seem a bit of a shame for this particular game though.
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Kai Teo
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Erm it's interesting discussion for me not just noise.
I was wondering how one might pimp this out.
Components are fine but it does look bland to me. Art on card is nice I do wish it was transferred to the board as well.
Cattle currency also run into same issues when we keep changing especially during auction. Also my friends commented its hard to see which resources are already 'booked' by existing craftsman.

So what I think can be done for pimping are:
1)Tribe icons on the monument discs. If it gets too busy you can always flip them to the plain side
2)more cattle currency or something easily translatable and still in theme?
3)some small pawn or token to denote resource is already booked.



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Mikko Saari
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The components may look bland, but when there's lots of stuff on the board, it gets busy enough. If the components were more detailed, then the whole view would start to get too confusing.

Eric, re: your item 3, that's a decent point. Maybe a resource chit to put over the original resource with a border or something? Then again, I'm not sure if it's worth the trouble.

How many cows extra? Hard to say, but 20 more of the silver cows would not be bad.
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Chakroun Karim
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The only thing I think might be useful is wooden cups for the cattle common stock; other than that, I like tGZ as it is.
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