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Descent: Journeys in the Dark (Second Edition)» Forums » Strategy

Subject: Yellow die or red die? rss

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Amish Cow

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I do not have them in front of me, but I believe if you average it out for each Red die you roll you will average 2 1/6th points of damage with a 1 in 6 chance of getting a surge. if you roll a yellow die you will average 1 1/6th points of damage but have a 50% chance of getting a surge.

So the red does on average a point more of damage, but you are 3 times more likely to get a surge on a yellow.

Does anyone build their character specifically to take advantage of the Yellow die, knowing you have a 50/50 chance of a surge, or knowing some Act 2 weapons roll double yellows? Are there builds (equip, skills, etc) out there built around the 75% chance of a surge with a Blue/Yellow/Yellow item?
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Darren Nakamura
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If I remember right, the red die has two faces with a Surge on them, so you actually have a 1/3 chance of hitting a Surge with it.

The general idea is sound though. The red die deals more damage but rolls fewer Surges, while the yellow die deals less damage but rolls more Surges, on average.

Personally, I haven't noticed my Heroes specifically tailoring things knowing that the yellow die rolls more Surges. I think in general, they prefer the red die, and they go for stuff that gives them reliable Surges (Weapon Mastery, Bow Mastery, Mana Weave, et cetera).
 
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Erik Burigo
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Dexter345 wrote:
If I remember right, the red die has two faces with a Surge on them, so you actually have a 1/3 chance of hitting a Surge with it.


Watch out. Is the blue dice that has 2 surges, the red has only one:
.

Anyway, I agree with you.
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Darren Nakamura
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I stand corrected. Clearly I don't remember right. In fact, by memory I thought there were two 1-heart faces, two 2-heart faces, and two 3-heart faces on the red die. My memory is obviously broken.
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Amish Cow

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Dexter345 wrote:
Personally, I haven't noticed my Heroes specifically tailoring things knowing that the yellow die rolls more Surges. I think in general, they prefer the red die, and they go for stuff that gives them reliable Surges (Weapon Mastery, Bow Mastery, Mana Weave, et cetera).


Indeed, I think that is a common "surge strategy" where one focuses on getting items/skills that give reliable surges. The downside is you're spending gold / skill points to guarantee surges. I admit, this is the strategy I currently use as well Time for some math. whistle

My back of napkin Surge probabilities:

Blue/Yellow
42% 0 surge (or miss)
42% 1 surge
16% 2 surges
58% chance of rolling at least 1 surge

Blue/Red
58% 0 surge (or miss)
28% 1 surge
6% 2 surges
34% chance of rolling at least 1 surge

Blue/Yellow/Yellow
29% 0 surge (or miss)
33% 1 surge
29% 2 surge
8% 3 surge
71% chance of rolling at least 1 surge
37% chance of rolling at least 2 surges

Blue/Red/Red
51% 0 surge (or miss)
37% 1 surge
11% 2 surge
1% 3 surge
49% chance of rolling at least 1 surge
12% chance of rolling at least 2 surges

In my opinion, in order to make rolling the yellow over the red, your surge has to make up the lack of damage, and then some. Assuming your surges gave you +1 heart damage then on average you are doing the following damage:

Blue/Yellow:
2.5 damage
0.75 surges
------------
3.25 damage

Blue/Red
3.5 damage
0.4 surges
-----------
3.9 damage

Blue/Yellow/Yellow:
3.6 damage
1.2 surges
-----------
4.8 damage

Blue/Red/Red
5.6 damage
0.6 surges
-----------
6.2 damage

Yikes, looks like the Red still out does the yellow... significantly. After some more calculations, each surge would have to do FOUR heart damage for the yellows to over-damage the red die.

So when could rolling yellow over red be more damaging?
Death Rage: Surge - +1 wound for every 2 wounds on your hero sheet. A 14 health warrior would add 7 damage.
An ability/weapons with Surge - Blast. Could theoretically hit up to 7 more monsters.

When could rolling yellow over red be more useful?
Obviously, special surges like immobilize, moving a target, etc etc.

What do you guys think? Still go for red over yellow?
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Darren Nakamura
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amishcow wrote:
When could rolling yellow over red be more useful?
Obviously, special surges like immobilize, moving a target, etc etc.

What do you guys think? Still go for red over yellow?


I think that's the main point. If all you want is damage output, you want a weapon with a red die or two. However, if you want better range or something that afflicts Conditions or other effects, you want something with a yellow die. One isn't unequivocally better than the other; they are specialized to do certain things.
 
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Bryann Turner
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amishcow wrote:
Death Rage: Surge - +1 wound for every 2 wounds on your hero sheet. A 14 health warrior would add 7 damage.


You need to have that amount of health on your sheet, which in D2E means you must have sustained 14 damage, so you'd be dead unless you had an armor that gave you extra health.

I'll always take guaranteed damage over potential damage/abilities any day. Especially since you need to inflict damage to activate any conditions.
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Mark McGee
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I play with the Spirit Speaker deck, and I prefer rolling the yellow die so that I can use the charges to remove my teammate's fatigue, which helps them all deal a lot more damage over the course of the game. I am building my character to take advantage of charges more than damage.

We have a player with the crossbow who also prefers the yellow die so that he can move enemies. The other two prefer the red die.
 
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