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Mage Knight Board Game: The Lost Legion Expansion» Forums » General

Subject: Sneak Preview - Part 3 rss

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Paul Grogan
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The first part of this sneak preview is four of the new advanced action cards. I will be released some new spells and artifacts later on in this thread.





And since there was a lot of discussion of the first 4 cards, here are four more!



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Jordi Ribas
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Cool... love the green card.
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clemens kremer
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First up: Thaks for the preview ! Really appreciate the time you put into keeping us happy while we wait...

Second: So glad there seems to be no 'recycled' art in the expansion (one of the few (minor) things that bugs me about the base game) !

Out of these, I like the green card the best. Not sure about the red one, regarding both the art and the effect. Temporal portal is very interesting. You can potentially save a lot of move but you can't do something useful at the end of your turn (gain a crystal at a mine at most), tricky to evaluate (without just trying it out)...

All in all: Still foaming at the mouth and ready to throw my wallet at anyone and anything that will give me the expansion (well, I did allready preorder...)!
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Christoph M.
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Without using mana, you can just move to an adjacent space and lose your action with temporal portal - hm, not impressed.

The other cards look interesting, but - and I think that's quite important - they do not look stronger than the base game advanced actions. So, no power creep here, which is always a good thing!
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Martin Presley
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REALLY liking Dodge and Weave; the attack reducing powers in the expansion have a lot of promise for propping up blocking.
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I really like the white one. -4 Attack is huge, esp against swift enemies or enemies with paralyze like the Freezers
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clemens kremer
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Chris Coyote wrote:
Without using mana, you can just move to an adjacent space and lose your action with temporal portal - hm, not impressed.

The other cards look interesting, but - and I think that's quite important - they do not look stronger than the base game advanced actions. So, no power creep here, which is always a good thing!


Don't forget that you get an extra card for next turn as well... this is more of a 'setup' card to prepare for something next turn. And that one space could be worth 5 move...

The advanced effect is also very strong as it can let you 'fly' over water.
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Christoph M.
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ckremer2 wrote:
Chris Coyote wrote:
Without using mana, you can just move to an adjacent space and lose your action with temporal portal - hm, not impressed.

The other cards look interesting, but - and I think that's quite important - they do not look stronger than the base game advanced actions. So, no power creep here, which is always a good thing!


Don't forget that you get an extra card for next turn as well... this is more of a 'setup' card to prepare for something next turn. And that one space could be worth 5 move...

The advanced effect is also very strong as it can let you 'fly' over water.


Yes, but the card is very situational.
The powered effect is very strong. no question.
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Marc Mistiaen
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As evidenced by these and the new hero-specific cards, the art in the expansion is incredible.
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Michael Pustilnik
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Here are my first impressions:

Ritual Attack: This card seems weak; it has less power and less flexibility than Maximal Effect. You use two cards- one of which is an AA, and the other has to be thrown away- for a mere Attack 5. Not very impressive.

Temporal Portal: Very situational. Certainly it can be very good if you need to hop over a rampaging dragon. But most turns you won't want to give up your action, so this will often be played sideways for Move 1. I don't think I am going to be taking this card very often.

Dodge and Weave: Slightly above average for an AA. This card is stronger if you have units, because then you are more likely to get the free attack provided by this card.

Force of Nature: Objectively, this card is also only slightly above average for an AA, but personally, I like it. Even if you have no other Range or Siege, Block 6 can stop a Medusa or Crypt Worm by itself. It is also excellent for the defender in a PvP, which is important for my games.
 
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Simon Kamber
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MikePustilnik wrote:
Temporal Portal: Very situational. Certainly it can be very good if you need to hop over a rampaging dragon. But most turns you won't want to give up your action, so this will often be played sideways for Move 1. I don't think I am going to be taking this card very often.


I am not sure I agree. In any deck where having a turn without an action is not devastating, this can simultaneously save you some move and set you up for a big hand next turn.

+2 handsize on the next turn will often be enough to make up for a lost action. One or two free moves will occasionally be enough to make up for a lost action. Getting both of them at once seems like it will be useful much more often than "very situational".

EDIT: This may be a difference between PvP and coop games though. I imagine that optimizing your cards plays much more of a role in coop, while the 'get stuff done before the others'-imperative is naturally absent.
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Jason Rupp
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I'm not sure why so many people are excited about the green card, the blue card is the most powerful from this example.

It's a perfect setup card to take on a city the next turn. MK is all about having that one monster turn and the blue card is how you make it happen.

Cool cards. Excited for this to come out.
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David Neumann
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MikePustilnik wrote:


Ritual Attack: This card seems weak; it has less power and less flexibility than Maximal Effect. You use two cards- one of which is an AA, and the other has to be thrown away- for a mere Attack 5. Not very impressive.



I agree, Ritual Attack seems very weak. Plus, the wording on the card seems different from cards in the base game.

For example, Decompose says "When you play this card, throw away an Action card from your hand." These cards say to "throw away another action card". Different wording for the same thing? I think the Decompose method is more descriptive.
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Chris Maloof

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Neat, thanks Paul. First thoughts:

Force of Nature looks awesome (and I like the art); Crushing Bolt is the strongest of the bolts, and this seems just better, though I don't think it's overpowered.

Dodge and Weave looks very solid and makes a focus on blocking more viable. The advanced effect seems to imply that single enemies can have multiple attacks now...

Temporal Portal is typically going to be worse than Pathfinding; not only do you give up your action, but it has to be played as your final movement. On the other hand, Pathfinding is probably a bit overpowered itself, so that may be OK. I can see often playing this at the end of another movement to jump onto a swamp or forest, or using it to bypass rampagers or obstacles, with the hand size increase being a solid bonus; I think it'll be fairly strong.

I don't understand the flavor for Ritual Attack, it's a bit weird. Doesn't sound that powerful either; Blood Rage is stronger, Maximal Effect more versatile. But it might fit nicely into a range/siege deck.
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Luis Fernandez
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Mestremuten wrote:
Cool... love the green card.


+1

Yes pretty handy card
 
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Joshua Miller
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Regarding Ritual Attack vs. Maximal Effect ...

Being a little weaker than the best or second-best action in the game (Maximal Effect) does not make this a weak card. You could take almost any advanced action from the base game and say, "This is weaker than Maximal Effect!"

Also, don't think of the trashing effect as a penalty. Throwing a card out of your deck is usually helpful for future rounds, especially in multiplayer games, and especially especially in PvP multiplayer games.

The basic effect of Ritual Attack doesn't impress me, but the strong effect is going to be amazingly good against dangerous/tough/resistant enemies.
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Paul Glickman
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I've had bad experiences with Maximal Effect. Is it actually considered that good? Having less cards in deck means you can do less things.

Ritual Attack seems like the weakest card by a significant margin, but I may be undervaluing having Elemental attacks.
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Chris J Davis
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Paul G wrote:
I've had bad experiences with Maximal Effect. Is it actually considered that good? Having less cards in deck means you can do less things.


That's not how it works at all. Having a lower hand size means you can do fewer things. Having fewer crap cards in your deck means that when you come to draw your hand you'll have a higher density of better cards. Maximal Effect allows you to get rid of those crap cards.
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Paul Glickman
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I've played a good number of deck builders. I know the power of the trash/banish/K.O.

Mage Knight is not the same, as you go through your deck once per round, no matter what. An extra move 2 card means you can move an extra 2. Higher density is worth something, but so is being able to do more over the course of the round.
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Chris J Davis
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Paul G wrote:
I've played a good number of deck builders. I know the power of the trash/banish/K.O.

Mage Knight is not the same, as you go through your deck once per round, no matter what. An extra move 2 card means you can move an extra 2. Higher density is worth something, but so is being able to do more over the course of the round.


True, but as others have stated, even in MK the most important thing is being able to pull off one mega-turn each round, which eliminating the basic cards from your deck helps you to do.
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Joshua Miller
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Paul G wrote:
I've played a good number of deck builders. I know the power of the trash/banish/K.O.

Mage Knight is not the same, as you go through your deck once per round, no matter what. An extra move 2 card means you can move an extra 2. Higher density is worth something, but so is being able to do more over the course of the round.

But if you're doing well and in position to win, your deck is probably getting fatter than the other players (unless they're taking lots of wounds), and you may not get to play all your cards in a round. The trailing players tend to be the ones who force the end of the round.
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Paul Glickman
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I've never really had that problem, I tend to burn through my deck pretty quickly.

Then again, I am significantly better than the people I play with, so I could have a biased experience.

I tend to be able to make awesome turns happen regardless of a few bad cards in my deck, and in my experience "throw away" cards sometimes get drawn at very bad times. You need something worth throwing away.
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David Yeung
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Looking at this, Ritual Attack does seem like a weak card on its own. For its basic effect, Attack 5 seems decent enough (it's able to take out a good chunk of the known monsters after block/damage), but keep in mind that instead of spending a mana for a high attack, you have to spend a card (of the right color, no less). The Ice attack 3 takes out only the Ironclad and the Illusionists post block/damage. Keep in mind, this still leaves you with about 3-4 cards (and units) to contend with blocking, assuming you used no cards to move that turn.

Ranged Attack 3 is good enough to take out the Prowlers...yeah, nothing really noteworthy, although at least you don't have to use a mana for this effect, but early game, you'd need Swiftness plus another white card you're willing to throw away to get Ranged Attack 6, which doesn't really help in assaulting fortified sites anyway.

Siege Attack 2 is basically useless if you don't have other means of Seige Attack.

Now the stronger effects: Fire attack 6 is enough to take out all of the orcs, all of the gray tokens save for the Guardsmen, any violet token without fire resistance, all of the brown tokens, and the Gunners (but you'd still have to deal with the Brutal Fire attack 6...). Keep in mind that you're now spending a mana and a card, so stacking effects and blocking is going to be a lot harder here.

Cold Fire attack 4 seems nice, then you realize it's only 4 attack. Since Cold Fire attacks are already rare enough, and they pretty much all cost additional mana to use, it's very unlikely you're going to play this for this effect. You'd pretty much use this effect on either the Fire Dragon or the Fire Golems (3 monsters out of the known 60). Otherwise, just use Fire Attack 6 or Attack 5.

Ranged Fire attack 4 is a bit redundant. Sure, you can now kill any orc save for the Cursed Hags and the Medusa...but anything that would warrant the use of a Fire attack is usually fortified anyway, and the low value of 4 means it really only reaches two of these fortified creatures (Illusionists, Ice Golems).

Seige Fire attack 3 is enough to take out the Illusionists, but without other sources of Seige attack, that's all it's going to take out.

So, on the surface, this does indeed seem like a weird card. However, things get interesting if you play this with Concentration/Will Focus.

Ranged Fire Attack 6 is enough to take out anything that isn't fortified or has Fire resistance (with the exception of the dragons, of course). Ranged Fire Attack 7 is enough to kill the Ice dragon outright, which is pretty big considering the lethality of its Petrifying Ice attack 6.

Seige Fire Attack 5 is enough to kill off all gray tokens (except for the Guardsmen), the Monks, Illusionists, and the Ice Golem. Seige Fire Attack 6 is enough to kill the Crypt Worm, the Ice Mages, and the Gunners.

All in all however, Ritual attack doesn't do a lot on its own, and it requires a lot of resources to do anything with it; you have to throw away a card from your hand of a specific color to get the effect you want, and sometimes you may not be willing to do that (do I throw away one of my precious Move cards to get the Seige attack? Do I really want to toss away Mana Draw for some Ranged Attack?). It also effectively costs two cards to use (plus a mana if you want the stronger effect), and you don't really get much of a benefit for those two cards. However, Arythea, who has Battle Versatility, may find this card useful enough. And Goldyx with his Will Focus just might utilize this card combo to deadly effect.

Still, with its high cost to use, I would probably pass on this card most of the time; there are definitely better options if you're just looking to attack. And getting this specifically to trash cards isn't going to be that helpful since you're not getting anything significant for doing so. Maximal Effect comes to mind for generating obscene attack/move/influence values, but most cards that trash give you Advanced actions, or even spells to replace them.

TL;DR, Ritual Attack is high cost for little reward. You're going to skip this most of the time.

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Kevin Chung
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Ritual attack does seem pretty weak, you need to have have another card of the specific color that you need it for depending on whether you need ranged or seige. The base effect seems really weak and the powered effect seems to only be good if you draw concentration as well.
Both the other throw away AA seem better, Maximal effect is much more versatile, often powering large turns of move or influence and decompose usually gets played as soon as you draw it, whereas I can see this card clogging up your hand if you have nothing to kill or nothing that you want to or nothing of the right color to throw away. I cant see taking this AA too often.

Temporal portal seems pretty situational, it can be used to skip a dragon, move through swamps or over a lake/mountain like space bending, and allows you to draw some more cards next turn. However, it also takes up your action to do so. The extra 2 cards may not even be useful if your deck is empty. Unlike motivation that you can use to always draw 2 extra cards when you need it, you may draw this card near the bottom of the deck when it is empty. Also, on many of the tiles, moving 2 spaces may be just as useful as having stamina but without having to use up your action. I can see some situations where I would take this but I probably wont take it too often.

Dodge and weave seems pretty sweet, as attack reduction is much stronger than block. It allows you to essentially partially block some attacks if you wish and take less wounds, reduce attacks allowing your units to fully absorb some of the attacks with their resistances (Im looking at you fire resist units!), essentially counts as efficient block against any element and more if the unit has swiftness. The extra attack you get after if you fully block is just a nice little bonus.

Force of nature is probably the easiest to evaluate of the 4 and it seems quite strong. The basic effect effect works well if you have more units but with even a single basic unit it will often absorb 4 physical, although with the new assassination ability will be a weaker effect. Seige 3 or block 6 are quite strong and I will probably take this card over crushing bolt most of the time and crushing bolt is already one of the stronger AA's.
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stybba00 wrote:
crushing bolt is already one of the stronger AA's.


Could you please explain why do you think crushing bolt in the stronger AA's? I mean 3 siege attack isn't going to kill many enemies.
 
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