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Merchant of Venus (second edition)» Forums » General

Subject: Reviews not looking good rss

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Steve Austin
Canada
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Just picked this up yesterday and I have to say i was scared by the contents. The amount of tokens and set up seems too much to handle, let alone unwrap. I wasn't impressed by the look of the board. Looks really chaotic, and I loved the original board. Both sides seem identical. Why couldn't they at least use the original artwork for the classic game? That's what I expected.

I am on the fence with even unwrapping this further or just taking it back to the store for credit, albiet probably no more than 50% of what I paid.
The reviews seem luke warm at best, and we cannot stand long games, which seems a major complaint with this edition. Even for two players, it will go two or three hours. I can imagine the first slog through the rules and set up will take 4 hours, and this will just kill any desire to ever play it again. So, take it back half sealed for credit, or slog through? My wife liked the original, but this looks like an absolute beast compared to the original.
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Mark Chaplin
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Peepser wrote:
Just picked this up yesterday and I have to say i was scared by the contents. The amount of tokens and set up seems too much to handle, let alone unwrap. I wasn't impressed by the look of the board. Looks really chaotic, and I loved the original board. Both sides seem identical. Why couldn't they at least use the original artwork for the classic game? That's what I expected.

I am on the fence with even unwrapping this further or just taking it back to the store for credit, albiet probably no more than 50% of what I paid.
The reviews seem luke warm at best, and we cannot stand long games, which seems a major complaint with this edition. Even for two players, it will go two or three hours. I can imagine the first slog through the rules and set up will take 4 hours, and this will just kill any desire to ever play it again. So, take it back half sealed for credit, or slog through? My wife liked the original, but this looks like an absolute beast compared to the original.


You make it sound terrific!



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Michael Fralish
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Annnndddd none of this information was available before you bought it? Your complaint is that it is a big box packed to the brim with awesome? You don't like awesome?
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Eric Prieur
Canada
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For your first game I recommend you play 20 rounds instead of 30, or even maybe 15 rounds.

I'll agree that our first 2 players game (me and my GF) it took around 3:30 and we aren't that slow. Our 2nd game a full 30 turns was done in 2:20 or so and we will probably be able to play games in 2 hours. As soon as the other person say they are docking or that their move is done, the other player should roll (a 2nd set of dice) and start checking his moves while the first player finish selling/buying.
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Dr. snowMan
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A good 1/3 of the components are only used in the original game. I found the new standard game to be overproduced, with lots of nice, heavy, pretty components that could have been replaced with smaller tokens and reference sheets. Once you get used to it, you can start to appreciate how pretty and fairly simple a game it is.

Play the lightspeed version if you are worried about game time. Once you get used to the decisions, it will play a lot faster, I'm sure. If you've played the original, I doubt it will take 4 hours.
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Matt
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I was overwhelmed too by all those pieces, but yes once you take out the original stuff (or vice versa) it is A LOT less overwhelming. Especially once you line things up in their respective places. I don't think this game will take too long to setup if you have the culture stuff presorted.
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Emmanouil Karakostas
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Well,
many components,
two maps,
space trading and fighting theme,
full replayability,
viable solo mode,
original, and revised edition together,
lots of happiness time,
variable play time, according to turn number,
this sounds the best game for FFG for this year!
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Steve Austin
Canada
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fralim wrote:
Annnndddd none of this information was available before you bought it? Your complaint is that it is a big box packed to the brim with awesome? You don't like awesome?


No. I don't spend my life on this site, and sometimes I make an order without researching everything in minute detail. I ordered it based on having owned the first one, and on first look, we are both disappointed. My wife's reaction when I showed her the 2 lb pallette that contained the unpunched tokens was "OH MY GOD!" and not in the "this is freakin' awesome" way. I now wish I had not sold my Avalon Hill version. I am also reading comments/reviews in the time between ordering it and actually getting it, and the reviews so far are mild at best, already bottoming out at 6. It's a pretty weak showing for a new game which usually get raves early on before the newness wears off. So, combine this with the dreaded 'long game' with downtime between turns and it naturally cause one to hestitate continuing with the the unwrap.

Strange as it may seem, we are not impressed by massive over produced game boxes with thousands of tokens as we don't enjoy the extended set up process. It's this kind of thing that virtually killed any board game time we still have, and moved most of it to IOS. Once you get used to that, it's hard to go back to 1988.
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Greg Purcell
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My girlfriend and I were a little intimidated, too. FFG tries as hard as they can to help you sort through the bits, but in the end there was some trial and error in terms of sorting things out. And you're right, the informational graphic design is among the worst I've ever seen, not that the original was a masterpiece.


Nevertheless, we've come to love the game--the classic version, anyway, which neither of us had played before. Picking up a Plano box to keep all the components sane and organized was a big part of that. I'd hate to have to set up the Standard Version each and every time I played.

So I empathize, but in the end there's a lot here to like. Ignore the reviews. Try it for yourself a few times before trading it in--the resale won't be too badly affected, since you've already opened it.

My two cents.

(edited for mistakes)
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Matt
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I'm not sure where you are seeing all of these negative reviews? The current average score is close to an 8, that is pretty high for bgg right? Lots of people rating this a 10,9, 0r 8.
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Joel Tamburo
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What on earth is the OP talking about?

The reviews have 8 x 6s and 1 x 4. And looking at them you can discard the 4 and at least 3 of the 6s as they are from anti-FFG trollers.

As to the piece count, remember that there are two games in the box. Once you have them separated the piece count is far less.
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Eric Matthews
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How long a game is expected to play and the list of components is not minute detail; those are both very basic bits of info. I havent played or bought this yet (partially because it looks long) but um those two details should be available just by looking at a game's box. Your post does kinda read like someone complaining about how much sugar and fat is ice cream. Just sayin
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Scott M.
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Peepser wrote:

No. I don't spend my life on this site, ...


You should...

Peepser wrote:

... and sometimes I make an order without researching everything in minute detail.


Your fault..


[/thread]
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Diz Hooper
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Ganybyte wrote:
How long a game is expected to play and the list of components is not minute detail; those are both very basic bits of info. I havent played or bought this yet (partially because it looks long) but um those two details should be available just by looking at a game's box. Your post does kinda read like someone complaining about how much sugar and fat is ice cream. Just sayin



Details that most games actually print on the box. As for the playing time, since you had owned the original, you already knew that it was a long game. In fact, the FFG version is designed to play shorter than the original, so I don't know why you are complaining about the length.
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John "Omega" Williams
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atraangelis wrote:
Peepser wrote:

No. I don't spend my life on this site, ...


You should...

Peepser wrote:

... and sometimes I make an order without researching everything in minute detail.


Your fault..


[/thread]


If everyone did that then no one would buy any games as someone has to go out there and grab a game blind and see what they get.

(That and not all reviews are very informative. One persons hate is anothers like.)
 
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Scott Lewis
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Perhaps, but with FFG games you can almost always read the rules before you buy, and for me that is almost always a good way for me to tell if it's a game I'd like.
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Bernhard W
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Peepser wrote:
…and we cannot stand long games… I ordered it based on having owned the first one,…

Sorry, but I don’t understand your complaints there. If you can’t stand long games then why did you buy a game you played/owned previously in an earlier (AH) edition which was also very long to play? You must also have some exceptions form this rule as you gave “Through the ages” an 8 in your gamer profile – a game I wouldn’t play because of it’s length.

Peepser wrote:
The amount of tokens and set up seems too much to handle, let alone unwrap.

+ your comment on the AH version in your gamers profile “…Way too much set up time, but one of the better AH titles...”

Yes, there are lots of pieces in the FFG box but the original wasn’t light on that either. Once you sort them into standard and classic version things become better. If you liked how the original played (and I guess that’s why you bought it?), it’s in the box. Just set aside the standard game components and you’ll be fine.

With the game boards itself, I also preferred the straight lines in the AH edition over the wound routes in the FFG one which makes it hard to find your way through the galaxy (MoV is not a simulation of using gravity forces to travel btw).
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Renny Roufail
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You don't have to "Spend your life on this site" to make an informed decision. It really doesn't take that long to read some comments, a couple reviews or check out some Youtube vidoes. It took me 10 seconds to see that this game can take 180 minutes to play (right there on the main page of the game) so complaining about not liking long games makes no sense to me.

Games with this production level are not cheap, especially if you paid full MSRP. Selling it for half the cost before you have even played it sounds like a big waste of money. I personally think you owe it to yourself to be informed before plunking down $45+ on a board game. Based on your comments I seriously doubt you will enjoy it. Cut your losses, sell it for 50% credit and become a more informed consumer in the future.
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Reuven Fischer
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At first, I too was a bit turned off due to the number of components and lack of bags for sorting....

LOOK AT THE STORAGE THREAD here. Once you sort everything in Plano boxes it isn't that bad.

Yes, the game is Long. Tonight's 4 player game took us 5.5 hours... BUT you can shorten the game playing fewer rounds or using the abridged rules.

My gaming group LOVED the game tonight. Matter of fact two additional copies were Sold tonight
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David Williams
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And lastly, what kind of a store--of any kind--takes off 50% for returning an unopened ("unwrapped") item? Though I am a little confused by this phrase, "...unwrapping this further..." It sounds like being a little pregnant.
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John "Omega" Williams
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The Old Man wrote:
And lastly, what kind of a store--of any kind--takes off 50% for returning an unopened ("unwrapped") item? Though I am a little confused by this phrase, "...unwrapping this further..." It sounds like being a little pregnant.


Think he meant opened, but unpunched, components not out of bags, etc.

Some stores will not accept returns like that. Some will.
 
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Mark O'Reilly
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its currently 7.94 out of 10 here on the geek. that is a massively high score, so reviews on the contrary look favourable
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Ola Mikael Hansson
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What a weird thread title - while the game might not be to the OP's taste, geek impressions of it seem very good so far, with a high average, and a very positive video review.
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Jules D
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My only complaints are:

Your ship cards are like paper, quality of them is appalling, especially as you're using them a lot due to the dials.

Not enough bags, unless you want to spend a lot of time before a game sorting the race/good tokens because they are mixed up in a large bag. Other companies give lots of bags, why can't FFG?

Standard Game

The game can be too long but I have yet to try the light speed variant.

Not enough interaction between players, space stations are one thing but a lot of planets have two entrances/exits so players will just go the other way at the cost of 1 or 2 spaces.

Drilling seems pointless unless you wait for pirates and hope they die in line to gain you more asteroids. The pay off from the cost of being able to drill doesn't come till later ie not enough asteroids unless you want to go through the area and spend the entire time hoping you pass piloting, shield and laser rolls.

Fluffy dice are game breaking (the roll of a double is too good)in a close economic game ie it's too random.

Markets too random, demand and supply is all over the shop. Its a shame it doesn't depend on factors like what is happening in space around it ie pirates in a system would increase the demand for goods, whereas multiple players selling goods might decrease the sell price.

That all being said: Thankyou for taking out combat and I love the game.
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Scott Lewis
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Kallistosprom wrote:
Not enough bags, unless you want to spend a lot of time before a game sorting the race/good tokens because they are mixed up in a large bag. Other companies give lots of bags, why can't FFG?

I own very few games by any company where empty baggies were supplied, and even fewer where the number of baggies was adequate to sort the components in a way that made sense to me. I think games that provide such bags are the exception, not the rule, and since every person could have their own system for bagging games anyway (and many people who don't do it at all), adding baggies to try and make everyone happy is a very difficult task.

For this game, for instance, I don't even use bags for the Goods, Technology, and Market tokens; I created custom little trays for them so I can keep them sorted between games.

Quote:
Drilling seems pointless unless you wait for pirates and hope they die in line to gain you more asteroids. The pay off from the cost of being able to drill doesn't come till later ie not enough asteroids unless you want to go through the area and spend the entire time hoping you pass piloting, shield and laser rolls.

Those credits can add up, especially with the Drill Baron in the Asteroid System. In the mid-to-late game, it's not that hard to have enough lasers and shields (and a good pilot) to make the hazard checks very easy to pass (and in some cases, automatic).
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