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Pax Porfiriana» Forums » Rules

Subject: Disobedience of the Generals card 148 rss

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Stephen Brophy
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This card says "Steal an opponent's Troop by swapping its cube for yours." Admittedly I'm only on my first game, but the only time I can see in the rules that a cube is placed on a Troop card, is when it is an extorting troop, and even then it's only an option. What am I missing?

Speaking of extortion, I assume that all I lose is some income, but that the wording on the Enterprise still takes effect, such as a Bank allowing free purchase of an enterprise in the Market?
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Jorik
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It is useful to place the cube that denotes the fact that you are extorting an enterprise on your card instead of on the enterprise card, so just replace that. If you are placing the cube on the enterprise card just replace that one, effect is the same.
AFAIK special action still count it's just that your opponent also benefits.
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Martin G
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I think the intent is that if you steal someone's troop that is extorting you, you replace the extortion cube with one of your income cubes. If you steal someone's troop that's extorting someone else, you replace their extortion cube with one of your own. And if you steal someone's troop that's in their own Row, you replace one of their income cubes with one of your extortion cubes.
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Stephen Brophy
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qwertymartin wrote:
I think the intent is that if you steal someone's troop that is extorting you, you replace the extortion cube with one of your income cubes. If you steal someone's troop that's extorting someone else, you replace their extortion cube with one of your own. And if you steal someone's troop that's in their own Row, you replace one of their income cubes with one of your extortion cubes.


That's the way I'm playing it at the moment. Thanks.
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Ric Bernat
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So if the troop in question is played in somebody's own row to protect their own enterprise, and there's no cube on it, then you can't play the Disobedience of the Generals card to steal it?
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Martin G
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I believe you can. In that circumstance, the Troops become extorting Troops, so you replace one of the targeted player's income cubes with an extortion cube of your own.
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Ric Bernat
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Quote:
I believe you can. In that circumstance, the Troops become extorting Troops, so you replace one of the targeted player's income cubes with an extortion cube of your own.


That makes sense.

So then I would be free to redeploy the troops to somewhere else at a later point in time?

Or, let's say I leave the troops as extorting troops on that enterprise. If we later enter a depression and all cubes on the enterprise go away and it is sacked, then I have the option of retreating the troops to my hacendado's private army (assuming I am willing to flip him and he has the right faction to accommodate the troops)?
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Martin G
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Yep, they're your Troops now to do what you like with!
 
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Todd Quinn
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qwertymartin wrote:
I believe you can. In that circumstance, the Troops become extorting Troops, so you replace one of the targeted player's income cubes with an extortion cube of your own.


Hi Martin

I disagree. The literal reading of the card is that you steal the troops by swapping the troops' cube. So if they do not have a cube they cannot be stolen.

Using the black card on troops protecting someone's own enterprise is swapping the enterprise's cube, not the troops' cube.

Now maybe the card was meant to allow to do it the way you suggest, but on a literal reading of it, I cannot see how that can happen. The card would have to be worded differently.

Todd
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Martin G
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I agree that the wording is unclear. Phil?
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Dean Bond
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I have encountered the same problem to play this card

Martin... Phil don´t answer to this topic?

Does anyone know how to play this card?


Thanks


 
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Phil Eklund
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On the Disobedience of the Generals card, I intended to say "steal an opponent's extorting troop", but the "extorting" got dropped. The concept was if bandidos hired by your opponent come knocking, you could buy them off as their new employer, while bandido guards in enemy territory are not so easily influenced. So you need to have extorting troops, with a cube identifying their employer, to be able to take them with this card.
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Todd Quinn
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Thank you kindly Phil. See you next week at Essen (need to buy two more copies of this very nice game of yours).

Todd
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Phil Eklund
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OK booth 3P102, and I will bring plenty of Pax Pordifiana, also can show you Pasx Renaissance in development. Pax Porfiriana won't sell out at Essen but will likely sell out this year.
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Fabrice Dubois
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phileklund wrote:
OK booth 3P102, and I will bring plenty of Pax Pordifiana, also can show you Pasx Renaissance in development. Pax Porfiriana won't sell out at Essen but will likely sell out this year.

Thanks for the info. My FLGS will bring me back one copy this year.
 
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Dean Bond
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Thanks for your fast response, Phil.
Incredible and fantastic game design. This game is a must have.
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Martin G
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So can I only use it to steal a Troop that's extorting me, or one that's extorting anyone?
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Todd Quinn
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Based on Phil's reply above - if bandido's hired by your opponent come knocking - then it applies only to Troops extorting you.

Todd
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Bernhard Vierthaler
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I disagree. "Steal an opponent´s extorting troop" sounds quite clear. As long as they are not at home, they are easier to influence. It doesn´t say they have to extort you specifically.
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Rich James
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But that ignores Phil's elaboration on what the concept behind the card was. It is easier to buy off troops that come knocking at your door as opposed to those in other territories. His last sentence says "you" need to have sorting troops, so it sounds like he meant this to apply only to troops that are extorting you.
 
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Bernhard Vierthaler
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I asked Phil via e-mail. His answer:

"Yes Bernhard, any extorting troop can be stolen, not just one that is extorting you."
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Colin Taylor
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Sorry for dragging up an old thread, but I was wondering, would it be possible to maybe add an FAQ to the Living Rules? Seeing as the Living Rules don't cover situations such as this, i.e. clarifications on cards, it would be nice if they could be collected in one place.

Apologies if this has been addressed before.

Thanks,

Colin
 
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Dmitriy Popkov
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But than may be swapping ext troop cube on my own enterprise? Troop protected own enterprise no need cube. Opponent's extorting cube on you own income cube? And what occures with troop card without extorting troop? It becoming your own card (troop)? I assume swapping extorting troop may be only your opponent enterprise.
 
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