Allen Miller
United States
Texas
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I just played a demo and a massive 4 player game with the new British units tonight at BGG Con and I wanted to some thoughts.

Sergeants fills a nice niche in a gaming collection. It plays much like a board game but also like a miniature game in many aspects. The card play has a similar feel to Combat Commander. Much of the measurements and terrain are easy to calculate in a board game fashion, but you also use a ruler and blast templates like a miniature game.

With the pre-painted minis and the new 3D terrain, the game looks great on the table. I will be uploading some of my pics soon. This gives you the feel of playing a miniature game.

Does Sergeants fill that gap? I think this is a game that both sides will find interesting.
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Chris Ganshaw
United States
New York
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I think that SMG could be called miniatures "light". It certainly makes a great presentation, nice double sided game boards, well painted miniatures and the 3D terrain is very cool. The mechanics of game play are pretty easy to learnr and yet there is a depth to the strategy. Certainly, no two games would ever be the same. Personnally I like the small unit action size of the game and we are starting to see more variety of unit type (mortars with Brtitish). As the game evolves through 2013 and beyond, I can definately see this as a solid middle ground between board and miniatures game.
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Bill H
United States
Absecon
New Jersey
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"Shijuro" in Awatum (Serpent's Tongue)
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I would argue that it's not really a middle ground, it is well and truly a miniatures game but one that is accessible to boardgame players who might be put off by the huge rulebooks, myriad charts, tables and constant measuring of traditional miniature games.

I'm afraid that "miniatures light" makes it sound like it lacks the depth of a real wargame and that doesn't seem to be the case.
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Eric Lai
Hong Kong
Happy Valley
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I love this game, but sometimes I wish the game came with 2 rulesets: The lighter original rules (which I truly enjoy and appreciate) and a more complicated ruleset that manages to take more advantage of the beautiful terrain tiles and more complex line-of-sight rules.


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Martin Gallo
United States
O'Fallon
Missouri
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My "fear" is that there is just enough "stuff" to lure players from both sides (miniature and board) but not enough "stuff" to prevent them from turning away.

The good includes: Reasonably accessible rules (once players grok the subtleties); good looking terrain; the visual appeal of miniatures; tells a good story; replayability; player decisions are flexible but not unlimited; plays swiftly.

The potential turn-offs include: The squishy nature of figure placement and some of the sighting rules will probably turn away the "miniatures purists" (as will not painting your own miniatures and not having "actual" terrain on the table). While I saw the painting and terrain as pluses I game with folks who were offended by the very concepts. I ave not taken the game to the club for those reasons.

Also, it is an expensive game.
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Kevin Duke
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Wynne
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I was just talking with Jeff and Rob about "what's in the pipeline?"

Scouts and Skirmishers will bring more complexity. I was worried about that, but it sounds like it might be a perfect place to go-- an addition for those who want 'deeper' that no one has to use if they're happy with what they have.
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Bill H
United States
Absecon
New Jersey
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martimer wrote:
not painting your own miniatures

I've repainted prepainted figures before to add my own touch. Painting fans can think of the pre-painting as a base coat.
 
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Martin Gallo
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Shijuro wrote:
martimer wrote:
not painting your own miniatures

I've repainted prepainted figures before to add my own touch. Painting fans can think of the pre-painting as a base coat.
Yeah, I started to mention that but thought better of it.

Sergeants does not feel all that complicated to me. It is probably completely overwhelming to someone new to gaming but I have been a gamer for 34 years so it is hard for me to judge. I will have a better handle on the idea of complexity when I teach my wargaming buddies in about half an hour. I would think that anyone with a few games of various types would have no trouble with this.
 
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Bruce E. Schwark
United States
Manitowoc
Wisconsin
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How about SMG as the perfect gap to fill between board/miniature game and the video game Call of Duty. My sons are avid players of the video game, but alas, I am not. I have neither the dexterity nor aptitude to handle all those buttons. My sons distain board game, yet I can get them to play SMG with me. With the minis they do not view it as a board game. Also, I have 'sold' them on the ability to control a whole squad and the scenarios, terrain, and events are far more variable that a pre-programmmed video game.
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Todd
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One thing I have heard on the forums is that explaining the spotted vs not spotted thing will be a sticky point.

I remember reading that if you explain that spotted means that you can see your target for long enough to get a shot off between cover that the concept might be easier to handle.

You'll get situations where 2 soldiers can be very close but not able to get shots off between the 2 because they are not 'spotted'.

My boys love the game when we get it on the table, you'll have a blast.

Maus
 
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Chris Ganshaw
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As I have said previously, each new release seems to add another layer to the game. With the scouts and skirmishers (not to mention Tactics/Equipment) I'm sure we will continue to see the depth of the game expand. I am also fairly certian that 2013 will continue to bring new aspects, building on what has gone before.
 
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Martin Gallo
United States
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I "taught" three new players today. The hardest thing to get across was counting range bands for shooting and explaining that it is possible to check for a hit in more than one band. Once they got past that it was easier.

One of the newbies found an easy way to count range for squares. As you count the square, just subtract the pertinent modifier then compare that total to the soldiers Close and Long values (check for a hit Close/Long ≤ counted range). Made the math easier and faster and I approve.

The whole idea of spotted/unspotted came up and since hiding is nearly impossible at the closer ranges it was not much of an issue.
 
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Greg
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Lowell
Indiana
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martimer wrote:
I "taught" three new players today. The hardest thing to get across was counting range bands for shooting and explaining that it is possible to check for a hit in more than one band. Once they got past that it was easier.

One of the newbies found an easy way to count range for squares. As you count the square, just subtract the pertinent modifier then compare that total to the soldiers Close and Long values (check for a hit Close/Long ≤ counted range). Made the math easier and faster and I approve.

The whole idea of spotted/unspotted came up and since hiding is nearly impossible at the closer ranges it was not much of an issue.


The guy I taught the game to came up with that method too and it's much easier.
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John Di Ponio
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Lake Orion
MI
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Have to catagorize the game as 'Miniature Lite'. But, I do see this game developing into a heavier game if/when the Skirmishers pack hits the battlefield. The nice thing about the system to this point, is that it is very easy to teach the into rules and branch out to the expanded system. This will allow a better transition to an even more detailed ruleset allowing players to add as much richness to the game as they like. Was this the intention of the game makers?... I don't think so (although I am wrong from time to time ), it has just evolved over the course of time and has had more 'what if' ideas from the players and developers.
I really cannot put this into a board game catagory with the direction it is headed.
 
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Kevin Duke
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Well, I can't tell you how many times I heard someone at BGGcon say, "I don't normally like a..." and use either "wargame" or "miniatures game"... and then say, "...but this is really cool!"

I think 'fill the gap" is exactly what it does. Yes, based on what I heard about Scouts and Skirmishers, they will add more complexity/realism, and for those who want that, it will be welcome. Ditto the 3-D terrain. But the base game will stay base.

By the way, John, from what I can tell, Jeff Billings very much intended it to start out a light game and build over time. The tweaks and feedback along the way have been "evolutionary" pretty much only in making mechanics clearer or easier, but the actual product concept has been unchanged. There are times when things frustrate or baffle us (like when some guy with a sub-machine gun can fire farther at "short" than he can at "long") but things like this are part of the grand scheme in Jeff's mind and really do have a reason.
 
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stuart glanvville
United Kingdom
Sheffield
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I think the main problem, especially for us over here across the sea, is it's price..
i'm not knocking that by the way, it's a niche product, supplying painted minis and unique soldiers, some terrain etc, it's just i know if i got one unit, i'd need more.. and more.. and more.. then houses, then the british.....
hehe
 
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