Ira Fay
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In many of my games (including Fame and Fortune expansion), I find the wonders stagnate. If no one gets an ancient wonder in the early game, then by mid-game they are a bad investment. As the game progresses, they are worse and worse, and no one builds them. I think that's a shame, because I think they add something fun to the game.

I'm curious if other people have experienced this stagnation, and if anyone has suggestions for addressing it. Possible ideas include:

1) Automatically discarding a wonder from the supply and revealing a new one at certain events. (Suggestions include: culture track progress, 3 cities, turn X of the game, etc.)

2) Allow cities to include 2 (or more?!) wonders. Maybe this gives too much benefit to production-heavy civs, but I think it could be fun.

Additional thoughts welcome!
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El-ad David Amir
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Like many game elements, sometimes Wonders dominate the game, sometimes nobody uses them. It often comes down to the Civilizations available; there are more wonders with Egypt and America, for example.

As for a variant, you could give everyone the ability to remove an Ancient wonder from the market for silk, like Monarchy.
 
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Ira Fay
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I played a 4 player game last night with Egypt and America, and no wonders were built (other than Egypt's starting one). What wonders are particularly good for America or Egypt that would cause those civs to spend the city action buying them?

I have seen one game where many wonders were built, but most games they sit stagnant. Like 80%+ of the games. I'd like to see them come into play more often.
 
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Tor Sverre Lund
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Then build it! :D
 
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Ira Fay
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Gawain wrote:
Then build it!

That makes me feel like you misunderstood my whole post... I'm saying that wonders aren't worth building early-game in many cases, and if they're not built in the early-game, then they definitely aren't worth building in the mid-game or late-game. It would be nice if players' choices to not build wonders in the early-game wouldn't preclude wonder building mid-game and late-game.
 
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El-ad David Amir
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ira212 wrote:
I played a 4 player game last night with Egypt and America, and no wonders were built (other than Egypt's starting one).

Well, I played many four player games where Egypt and America built tons of Wonders. So there.

In a more serious note, I did not mean that Egypt and America ALWAYS lead to construction of Wonders. You could always find anecdotal evidence to one way or another. Egypt can get access to a lot of Hammers and reveals a Medieval Wonder at the beginning of the game. America simply has access to A LOT of Hammers. Also, Rome gets a nice bonus from Wonders and might go for a Wonder intensive strategy. And Germany or Russia might choose to go for Colossus if all of the Barracks were built, leading to further Wonders.

With that said, Wonders are situational. Many games have none, or at most a couple. It is rare to see people go all the way to Modern Wonders, as it is rare to see people build Airplanes. It's a game mechanic that exists but not fully utilized.

ira212 wrote:
What wonders are particularly good for America or Egypt that would cause those civs to spend the city action buying them?

All of the Wonders in the game are excellent in the right circumstances. Many of them are just plain good. The Pyramids open a universe of flexibility, Colossus offers a reasonable amount of Trade, Stonehenge is the cheapest source of Culture in the game, The Great Wall allows you to be more aggressive with your Figures and buys you a couple of turns when attacked, Brandenburg Gate is an extremely powerful defensive option, Angkor Wat can quickly get out of control, Himeji Castle is a game breaker against unprepared opponents, and the list goes on.
 
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Tor Sverre Lund
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I just feel that, while you might be "rescuing" a single part/mechanic of the game (the wonders), you would end up "stagnating" the whole game instead. As it is now, the wonders come into play once in a while, and offer some variation to your games. Maybe a highly sought after wonder will show itself and force you to rethink your usual strategy, either because you got one or someone else did. Forcing out the better wonders every single game would remove this variation. As you say, you feel they add something fun. Consider if they would be as fun if you felt you were forced to get them every game (simply because they're so good and not getting it would most likely lose you the game). The later wonders are, after all, game winning. Again, just how I feel.
 
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JH
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I came up with a house rule for this problem. In practice I don't use it much because I tend to go after Wonders pretty aggressively (in the computer game too), but it should work.

Keep in mind also that Fame and Fortune lets you obsolete Wonders on the market board, so if you want to keep the pile moving along you can go that route as well.
 
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