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Subject: Creatures Lore rss

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Mike F
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Would anyone be able to advise me on some things about creatures?

I saw an old thread on here where no one disagreed with someone who said a Giant Spider rolling 2 Lores will immediately use BOTH of its special abilities. The opponent gets both webbed AND poisoned.

I'm fine about it being 'immediate' (creatures no longer store Lore, instead using them immediately), but does it really get to use BOTH abilites? Using that logic, an Elemental would cast both Tremor AND Earthquake if it rolled 2 Lore.

It seems a bit wrong, but perhaps it helps balance those creatures because the new rules have taken away their ability to store-up Lore?

I've instead read the rules to mean that it casts only the best ability that it reached - for example Poison instead of Web or Earthquake instead of Tremor.

But the updated creature rules say this, which I don't think is clear: "As soon as a Creature meets the necessary Lore requirement for a given special power, it will unleash that power. Therefore, if a Creature is lucky enough to roll multiple Lore symbols in a battle, it must immediately unleash the effect of its corresponding Lore special power (if any)."

Any thoughts?

Also could anyone clarify a couple of other things?:
- If a giant spider manages to roll 3 Lore in one go, does the opponent immediately take one hit from the 3rd Lore because the first 2 Lores poisoned it? I presume yes, in the same way that if it webbed them and rolled 2 Flags at the same time, they would take 2 hits because they're immobile.
- Does a Giant do hits against a poisoned enemy when it rolls Lore, or is all its Lore instead being 'used up' by its Giant Push ability?

Incidentally, I think the Green spider is notably less powerful than its Blue version, so I'm experimenting with a house rule where the Green spider puts down two tokens for every special effect rather than one.
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Todd Rewoldt
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rigol wrote:
Would anyone be able to advise me on some things about creatures?

I saw an old thread on here where no one disagreed with someone who said a Giant Spider rolling 2 Lores will immediately use BOTH of its special abilities. The opponent gets both webbed AND poisoned.

I'm fine about it being 'immediate' (creatures no longer store Lore, instead using them immediately), but does it really get to use BOTH abilites? Using that logic, an Elemental would cast both Tremor AND Earthquake if it rolled 2 Lore.


Early on it was ruled that it was either/or with regards to web and poison, but likely that was a misruling. Regardless, once the Blue Widow was introduced the Poison ability became explicit in detailing that it was the intention for a 2 lore result to trigger both a web and what was known previously as Poison (except that now there is a token function whereby the Poison can be removed, but in the past, once bitten, it was for the duration of the game). This makes sense as one would almost never (definitely never in all my Giant Spider experiences ) choose Poison over a Web and a stored lore. Additionally, the previous requirement of a hit to trigger Poison (which also has been lifted with the introduction of the Blue Widow) just made it all that much more unlikely that one could trigger Poison even if one wanted to.

For what it is worth, the Earth Elemental has always triggered both a Tremor and an Earthquake at two lore - an Earthquake game mechanically being a Tremor that also causes effected units to take a hit. A two lore result from the EE would require every unit adjacent to the EE to retreat two hexes and take one hit (plus any additional hits for unretreated hexes), three lore results would be 3 hex retreat + a hit, four lore results (hey, it has happened...) would be 4 hex retreat + 2 hits, etc.


Quote:
Also could anyone clarify a couple of other things?:
- If a giant spider manages to roll 3 Lore in one go, does the opponent immediately take one hit from the 3rd Lore because the first 2 Lores poisoned it? I presume yes, in the same way that if it webbed them and rolled 2 Flags at the same time, they would take 2 hits because they're immobile.

- Does a Giant do hits against a poisoned enemy when it rolls Lore, or is all its Lore instead being 'used up' by its Giant Push ability?


These are interesting questions (not that the others weren't as well ), as in the past the game rules have been very clear that Lore results on a die would only be one effect, not multiple effects. For example, if Enchanted Mass Might were played, then Lore results on the die would be hits, not collected as Lore nor any Creature effects - additionally nor in place of. Along those lines, rules would suggest only Poison effect, but with the past rules making Poison almost never seen on the board, I don't think those situations came up. (For what it is worth, probably not best use of ones resources to target a poisoned unit with a Creature anyway.) I would assume that Poison rules would rule, but many things have changed over the past several years, and that may be one of them. I'll pose another question to FFG, but maybe someone else knows if this has already been decided?

EDIT: actually, there may be some precedent here - I think it was explicitly stated in the first instance that the third lore would be a hit but not trigger another web. Which would further support that Lore results remain triggering singular events.

Quote:
Incidentally, I think the Green spider is notably less powerful than its Blue version, so I'm experimenting with a house rule where the Green spider puts down two tokens for every special effect rather than one.


I continue on with the Giant Spider being grand-fathered in as the sole Creature that may store lore (don't allow it to collect lore in the goblet anymore), but have also gone over to the new Poison rules for it (no hit required and also triggers a web). This makes for a Creature that is as robust (or more!) as the Blue Widow.
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