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Hi Joey and anyone else who is interested in similar issues,

Sorry to hear this.

I'm not a wargamer and don't use other game sites' forums - so can't comment on this phenomena.

What I can say is it's got no place on BGG and everyone should be communicating in a way that shows common courtesy and respect to others. We are a community after all.

If you see a post that you feel negatively towards, please flag it - using the icon and ignore it. This serves two functions - first, if enough users flag a post then it will be collapsed from general view. Second, flagging posts helps bring them to the attention of the forum moderators.

Forum Moderators take their job seriously and want to ensure BGG is a nice place to enjoy our shared hobby. They have a number of options available to ensure that these ends are met.

Here are the community rules and terms and conditions.

If you have any wider concerns please don't hesitate to contact the community manager:
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I genuinely believe BGG is one of the nicest places on the internet and hope we can keep it that way. I do think there can be an odd relationship between the de-personalisation of the internet and growth of people behaving anti-socially online and for anti-social cultures to develop in online communities in ways that would not occur in the real world.

This situation is the antithesis of both the internets aims and the requirements of most forms of gaming. Communication should foster cooperation, commonwealth, care and most definitely play... again for me that's where BGG comes in.
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Benny
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You're complaint could be true but it is so full of generalizations and assumptions that it really makes it hard to accept anything you are saying.

But beyond the poor argumentation, it really doesn't fit with my experience in the wargame forums. I am a relatively new wargamer and I was welcomed with opened arms. We do silly fun things like a weekly caption contest and tell everyone what books we are reading.

We are also about the only place on BGG where we can discus sticky historical issues and keep it civil enough to not get sent to RSP (usually) -- and that is according to Octavian.

We tend to be harder on regulars to the forum than to newbies. Those tend to be two people who just can't let it go and it does often get ugly, but our moderator checks that nonsense pretty quickly.

Also, I know lots of wargame regulars who are very active elsewhere on this site. We have people who are welcoming ambassadors to new users, people who post well researched history geeklists, and more. Other play wargames and are happy to live in the wargame forum. I'm not sure what is wrong with that.

As to your one specific complaint, it would be helped if you linked to it so that the argument in question could be evaluated without your interpretation filtering it.

But I would kindly suggest that you don't take one experience and expand it to condemn the entire wargame community here.
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Dave, or "Phineas" or "Tolstoy" or,
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Yours is a very reasoned response. Except I think you might have missed that what the OP was talking about were other wargames forums on the internet, in general, not BGG. In fact, I believe he stressed that BGG was the one place that was different and better.

Other than that, I believe you made great points!
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Hoya wrote:
Yours is a very reasoned response. Except I think you might have missed that what the OP was talking about were other wargames forums on the internet, in general, not BGG. In fact, I believe he stressed that BGG was the one place that was different and better.

Other than that, I believe you made great points!


Fair enough, I did miss the point of the last paragraph. This probably doesn't belong in the complaint department then, but should be in the praise department (which, of course, we don't have).

Anyway, my apologies for misunderstanding your argument, Joey. And welcome to BGG.

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Benjro wrote:
This probably doesn't belong in the complaint department then, but should be in the praise department (which, of course, we don't have).

In fairness, the Complaint forum's description says "File all complaints here.", not just "File all complaints about BGG here." So maybe complaints about other websites are appropriate here.
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I thought it was about bgg also.


Can we complain about restaurants here?
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TonyClifton wrote:
I thought it was about bgg also.


Can we complain about restaurants here?


I hope so. I'm going to gripe up a storm in here if it is just a general complaint department.

Breaking Dawn Pt. 2 was the worst movie ever and I didn't even see it.

I love the internet.
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JSabin wrote:
I wish every internet service was required to keep watch over the activities it solicits like BGG does... There are far too many wargame web sites opened and left to the whims of the immoral and indecent with little or no policing.


Oh Big Brother, where art thou?
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JSabin wrote:

...without the law there is lawlessness.


Thank you Captain Obvious.


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JSabin wrote:
without the law there is lawlessness.

All too often even with the law there is lawlessness...
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russ wrote:
JSabin wrote:
without the law there is lawlessness.

All too often even with the law there is lawlessness...

I am the LAW!
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Since the first post in this thread has been hidden due to flagging, I opened it expecting a profanity-laced tirade. Maybe I'm missing something, but perhaps some of the flaggers would be willing to reveal themselves long enough to explain in what manner they felt the OP was guilty of

spam, personal attack, rude, troll, offensive, etc...
(Vote to hide for everyone)


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Paul Borchers
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I didn't flag the post, but I found it to be contrary to my experiences as a wargamer.

Some people launch into tirades on the internet, and I've seen this in a variety of places (if you think wargaming has "trolls," you ought to see what happens in scale modeling forums). Despite that, I've met wargamers (and good opponents) through Consimworld that I never would have had the chance to meet otherwise because they don't spend much time on BGG. This would also include meeting Mark Simonitch and joining his "Band of Gamers" for their first tour of the WWII sites in the Ardennes, the chance to proofread the rules for upcoming releases, and the opportunity to playtest both Fontenoy and Amateurs, to Arms. In short, I've become a better participant in the hobby thanks to that place, rather than finding myself needing a safe fort in a wilderness.

I find BGG useful as a database, and useful for posing and answering questions. I generally stay away from most of the conversations here as they've been sterilized to the point of banality. While I'm not fond of constant arguments and personal attacks that sometimes occur, I find the more open and honest discourse elsewhere more stimulating and useful. The occasional punches and diatribes hardly subtract from the value, and the talk can be endured with an average skin thickness - it is, after all, a hobby, not a life-or-death struggle.
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lotus dweller
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I think the flagging must be a joke.
The more I think about it the surer I become that it is a joke.

 
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I'm pretty sure that rules apply to what can be sent geekmail too.
Contact an admin.
 
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lotus dweller
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My Anurean psittacineal advice remains the same, "Contact an admin". They quite good at all sorts of things.
 
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zuludawn wrote:
Since the first post in this thread has been hidden due to flagging, I opened it expecting a profanity-laced tirade. Maybe I'm missing something, but perhaps some of the flaggers would be willing to reveal themselves long enough to explain in what manner they felt the OP was guilty of

spam, personal attack, rude, troll, offensive, etc...
(Vote to hide for everyone)

FWIW the original post is now gone, as is the original poster's account.
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russ wrote:
zuludawn wrote:
Since the first post in this thread has been hidden due to flagging, I opened it expecting a profanity-laced tirade. Maybe I'm missing something, but perhaps some of the flaggers would be willing to reveal themselves long enough to explain in what manner they felt the OP was guilty of

spam, personal attack, rude, troll, offensive, etc...
(Vote to hide for everyone)

FWIW the original post is now gone, as is the original poster's account.


Surprise surprise.

I wonder - did any of this have anything to do with that meltdown on a wargaming site last week (or the week before) where the webmaster (or something like that) got fired and then spouted a hugely childish tirade to all the subscribers? Cos that's the only thing around here I've seen in the past couple of months that comes even close to his claims.



Gotta love Google cache...


Joey Sabin wrote:

Ever really stop and take a look around at the harsh and mentaly disterbing communication between wargamers on the internet these days? I have seen wargamers resort to verbal violence far too quickly and in most cases for an underlying reason no one would have guessed in a million years.

A veteran wargamer had written extensively on a subject back in the 1970's and had recieved an award for such a well written article. Many decades later a fairly new wargamer (unaware of the veteran and his article) had posted a sentance briefly touching on the same subject. the veteran wargamer went mad and ballistic in his public criticism of the newbee. Turns out the veteran wargamer was obsessed and felt any topic related to that subject was his domain alone and any mention of it would result in the harshest wrath.

I have seen hundreds of postings like this in wargame forums and the trend is and has degenerated into things even worse. Now certain wargaming trolls (for lack of a better term) dedicate 24/7 to trolling the sites dedicated to the wargame hobby looking to "slam" anyone not well connected or new to the hobby. These self dillusional, self appointed lords of wargame communications over the entire internet have begun a new trend that will ultimately result in the demise of the hobby they claim to love so much as they chase wargamers away with foul language and bombarding attacks.

The trend is getting worse still as common courtesy gives way to the foulest written word that can be typed. Gone are the reasons for such posts as they are standard fare now and gone is a reason to post them as certain wargamers blindly aim their foul words at any target that might respond. These posts have gotten so bad as of late that verbal judo has little effect and I see no end in sight.

The sad thing is most wargamers will not venture beyond their inner circle now preferring to stay only in a safe environment and most will not even go out to lunch to meet a new gamer. Solitare seems to have taken over in an effort to avoid the trolls and I for one find that sad. I guess the trolls are getting exactly what they want although I'm not certain exactly how that helps the hobby. I'm greatful for the BGG Admins and dedicated people like them who build little forts in a wilderness of hostility and madness and say, "your safe here! beyond the confinds of our domain you take your chances but here we keep things civil if only for a while..."
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Paul Borchers
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Well, Joey was pretending to be a new user, when in fact he has had at least a couple BGG and CSW accounts over the years. Usually he gets involved in an incident of some sort, then deletes his posts and account (or has the latter done for him), and leaves.

I'm sure people have been rude to him, but I've seen him be rude to others as well. He had a string of posts on CSW where he demanded answers to questions on The Devil's Cauldron. Nick Richardson provides exemplary support for that game, but even he can't be expected to answer every single question in 24 hours - and I'm sure he didn't appreciate the number of posts arguing about the answers.

Joey has had some other problems where he's tended to lash out on e-mail to the people involved. We can safely retitle this thread as a pot-and-kettle conversation.
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mr_peabody wrote:
... We can safely retitle this thread as a pot-and-kettle conversation.
Hardly. This thread witnessed the birth of the polyanimomorphic adjectival phrase "Anurean psittacineal" and clearly needs to be labelled in a more fitting manner.
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Benny
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This is still the best complaint that's been in here for a while. This place used to be so much more Jerry Springer; I miss that.
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Matthew M
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With the OP having deleted the first post (along with the rest of his account) I don't see any reason to keep this thread going. Locked.
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