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Subject: Shame on You, Peter Jackson & Company, for Animal Cruelty and Deaths rss

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Meganekko Matsura
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Here's an article about this sad state of affairs.

Jackson and Company should be ashamed of themselves. No movie, no matter how long-awaited or celebrated, is worth the suffering of living creatures.

I'm boycotting--I will not put money in the pockets of the people responsible for this cruelty.

Hooray for the ASPCA!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/19/hobbit-animal-death...
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Billy McBoatface
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Why "shame on Peter Jackson"? The article states that as soon as the production company was made aware of the deaths, they "moved quickly to improve conditions." So if you hired a dogsitter, found out they were mistreating your dog, then you fire them and get somebody new, it's your fault?
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Liam
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Moved to RSP



Peta have also reported on it using the above emotive banner.

I blame both the production company and the wranglers. I think Jackson and friends' fight with the unions created a culture where speaking truth to power and requesting additional expenses was not possible. One the of the wrangles still is refusing to go on record as she fears it will hurt her future industry projects, it is this fear of powerful directors, producers and Hollywood that I would blame. Clearly they farmed out the animal welfare to a third-party company who were too afraid of their employer to do the right thing - Everyone failed in a journey that took in greed, inequality and cruelty.

I was already boycotting the film having sat through the LoR films waiting for any characterisation or meaningful character ark. Love the books.

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Meganekko Matsura
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wmshub wrote:
Why "shame on Peter Jackson"? The article states that as soon as the production company was made aware of the deaths, they "moved quickly to improve conditions." So if you hired a dogsitter, found out they were mistreating your dog, then you fire them and get somebody new, it's your fault?



Well, let's say that a high profile movie director is like the captain of a ship. The captain is responsible for the actions of their crew. I understand chain of command, which is why I said,'Jackson and Company.' They failed to exercise their responsibilities as animal guardians.

Suffering happened. Animals died. This is not a victimless situation. The people who profited from the work, the service, given to them by the animals did not protect them or provide for their well being. Those individuals are responsible for the suffering and the deaths. It would seem that you are trying to say that the director and executive producer--the captain of the Good Ship Hobbit Movie--isn't responsible for the actions, or lack of action, of their crew. If not the captain, then who is responsiblie?

And yes, BTW, as a responsible animal guardian it is my responsibility--my moral obligation and my legal obligation, to ensure that anyone, caretaker, family member, neighbor--is safe to be with my animal compansions and will care for them and ensure their safety and well being--especially if I designate them as my my proxies.

You're familiar with the part of the social contract called 'due diligence?' Let's say that you are a parent. Do you not have the duty to protect your child? Who, if not you, would be responsible for hiring a careless or abusive babysitter? For leaving the child in their care, no matter how quickly you attempted to rectify the sitauation? People must take responsibility. It's what being an adult is about.


Thanks to our generous colleague for posting the PETA article. Huzza, PETA!

Last word.














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Josh
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wmshub wrote:
Why "shame on Peter Jackson"? The article states that as soon as the production company was made aware of the deaths, they "moved quickly to improve conditions." So if you hired a dogsitter, found out they were mistreating your dog, then you fire them and get somebody new, it's your fault?


Shame on Peter Jackson because Horses are cute and people need to feel superior.

There are people being bombed into kibble in Gaza, but won't someone PLEASE think of the HORSES?

Hyperbole aside, it's a case of 'We need to know more to make an informed opinion.' Well, not everyone needs to know more, they're quite fine with uninformed opinions based on a single article and some selective reading.
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Ayumi Hakase
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Shadrach wrote:
wmshub wrote:
Why "shame on Peter Jackson"? The article states that as soon as the production company was made aware of the deaths, they "moved quickly to improve conditions." So if you hired a dogsitter, found out they were mistreating your dog, then you fire them and get somebody new, it's your fault?


Shame on Peter Jackson because Horses are cute and people need to feel superior.

There are people being bombed into kibble in Gaza, but won't someone PLEASE think of the HORSES?

Hyperbole aside, it's a case of 'We need to know more to make an informed opinion.' Well, not everyone needs to know more, they're quite fine with uninformed opinions based on a single article and some selective reading.


This thread was obviously posted by someone who cares about something and discusses it in a considered and mature way. Snarky comments, attempts at trivialization, and personal out-downs like the response above add nothing helpful to the discussion. To his credit, Meganekko pointed out suffering.

All suffering is evil, and all suffering should be opposed, whether it is the terrible suffering of the people of the Mideast or the suffering of animals in New Zealand. We should be courteous to one another here on these boards. Because God doesn't like ugly.







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Billy McBoatface
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Ayumi_Hakase wrote:
Because God doesn't like ugly.
If He doesn't like ugly, then why did He make so much of it?

And this forum is exactly the right place for snarky comments, attempts at trivialization, and personal put-downs. If you want serious discussion, head on over to RSP.

Edit: Aaaaaaaaand the thread has moved there. Ah well. Time for me to head on home I guess.
 
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William Boykin
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I've loathed PETA ever since they toured the nation with their propaganda display arguing that eating animals was akin to the Final Solution.

Being cruel to animals is bad thing, sure. But as its been already pointed out, it was a contractor responsible for this, not Jackson and or his production company. It wasn't as if Jackson had ordered that the horses be killed for a stunt, as was done in Bond remake "Never Say Never Again".

PETA is making a big stink about this in order to raise publicity and attention. Mountains, molehills, tempests and teapots come to mind.

Darilian
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CHAPEL
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wmshub wrote:


Edit: Aaaaaaaaand the thread has moved there. Ah well. Time for me to head on home I guess.


This is the hotel California. You can check out any time you want, but you can never leave.
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Mac Mcleod
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Shadrach wrote:
wmshub wrote:
Why "shame on Peter Jackson"? The article states that as soon as the production company was made aware of the deaths, they "moved quickly to improve conditions." So if you hired a dogsitter, found out they were mistreating your dog, then you fire them and get somebody new, it's your fault?


Shame on Peter Jackson because Horses are cute and people need to feel superior.

There are people being bombed into kibble in Gaza, but won't someone PLEASE think of the HORSES?

Hyperbole aside, it's a case of 'We need to know more to make an informed opinion.' Well, not everyone needs to know more, they're quite fine with uninformed opinions based on a single article and some selective reading.


Should we stop all charity work for animals while people are being bombed to kibble?

Should we have the freedom to direct our charity resources to the charity of our choice?

Should you have the freedom to champion doing more charity work for people in Gaza?

I'd answer these no, yes, yes.


I can't hold Peter Jackson responsible entirely because once your organization gets large enough, you just can't predict what crazy shit people will do, how they will fail, and you just can't know everything.

Once Jackson was aware of the situation, then he would be responsible and negligent if he didn't address it and I would hold him responsible.

Bonus points if Jackson put in place processes to protect animals that cover every movie going forward.
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Morgan Dontanville
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I've eaten all of those animals.
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Josh
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wmshub wrote:
Ayumi_Hakase wrote:
Because God doesn't like ugly.
If He doesn't like ugly, then why did He make so much of it?

And this forum is exactly the right place for snarky comments, attempts at trivialization, and personal put-downs. If you want serious discussion, head on over to RSP.

Edit: Aaaaaaaaand the thread has moved there. Ah well. Time for me to head on home I guess.


Serious Discussion? Have you *been* to RSP?

As to my snark. I was being a bit scathing toward an immature overly emotive response to a situation. Those reaction are polarizing and unhelpful, I was being demonstrative and if it didn't come across to clearly, sorry about that.

You'll see the last line where I sum it up cleanly. More info before flying off the handle. From what I glean two horses died due to improper conditions, and money and time were invested to fix the problem. Who exactly muffed up the care taking is not something one article will bring to light(or has any interest in bringing to light most of the time) I don't buy the 'Captain of the ship' line in the least. It's not possible to be accountable for something you don't know is a problem, unless someone is claiming that Jackson, malicious bastard that he is, told people 'find the nastiest hole you can stick these animals in, and oh! film when each one dies. I need some wanking material for later.' It appears there was a problem, and when it got to the top, they devote energy to fix it, that is 'taking responsibility' the right way. A flogging is not required.

To throw some hyperbole back into it, why doesn't he install cameras in the cars of everyone working on the movie and personally view the tapes to be sure they don't run any red lights? They could kill someone that way!

Now I'm going to go get Chinese, because cats are tasty,
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Brian
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I really want to see a movie where it says something like

"1 animal was harmed in the making of this movie". You never see crap like that.

anyways, I hope your boycott works! I'm probably going to boycott cause I heard it's going to be three goddamned movies!
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Jorge Montero
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wmshub wrote:

Edit: Aaaaaaaaand the thread has moved there. Ah well. Time for me to head on home I guess.


Nothing like holier than thou chit chatters. I could describe their relationsip with furries, but the post would not pass the moderation guidelines.
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Um, let's not lose perspective here...


Animals that accidentally died during filming of one Hobbit movie:
27 (or fewer)

Turkeys intentionally killed to be eaten this Thanksgiving in America:
27 million

Total animals killed every day in the world for human consumption:
500 million


(OK these numbers are my guesstimates, based on 300M meat-loving Americans and 7B total humans on the planet. But you get my point.)
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Rob M.
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Meganekko wrote:
Here's an article about this sad state of affairs.

Jackson and Company should be ashamed of themselves. No movie, no matter how long-awaited or celebrated, is worth the suffering of living creatures.

I'm boycotting--I will not put money in the pockets of the people responsible for this cruelty.

Hooray for the ASPCA!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/19/hobbit-animal-death...

I completely disagree. Animal suffering which I am willing to tolerate for specific movies:
Star Wars A New Hope - 183 Sheep and untold thousands of womprats
Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy - 43 Sheep, 14 Cattle and 3 Bugblatter beasts
Aliens - 200 Sheep, 53 Cattle and 17 Canaries
The Hobbit - 216 Sheep, 83 Cattle and 784 Wargs
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There is no Dana, only Zuul
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Darilian wrote:
PETA is making a big stink about this in order to raise publicity and attention. Mountains, molehills, tempests and teapots come to mind.


This.

PETA has a history of generally conducting publicity stunts and publishing efforts that are supposed to outrage the public, while generally obfuscating facts. Animal welfare vs. animal rights. There's a difference. The outrage over the lack of welfare is understandable. PETA is just about exploiting situations to push its animal rights agenda.
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It's sad animals are dead essentially due to negligence/accident. I don't see myself boycotting the movie over this - I think it would be a tad bit hypocritical of me to do that considering how many animals or parts of animals I intentionally eat every year.
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Ayumi_Hakase wrote:
All suffering is evil


I heartily disagree.

When I broke my face and the doctors reconstructed my face for six hours while I was conscious was evil?

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Brian
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tesuji wrote:
Um, let's not lose perspective here...


Animals that accidentally died during filming of one Hobbit movie:
27 (or fewer)

Turkeys intentionally killed to be eaten this Thanksgiving in America:
27 million

Total animals killed every day in the world for human consumption:
500 million


(OK these numbers are my guesstimates, based on 300M meat-loving Americans and 7B total humans on the planet. But you get my point.)


Sounds like as long as those damn dwarves ate the horses, we can't complain.
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sisteray wrote:
I've eaten all of those animals.


And some of those hobbits, too?
 
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madhatter106 wrote:
sisteray wrote:
I've eaten all of those animals.


And some of those hobbits, too?


If hobbit was served with a hoisin sauce, I'd consider it.
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Darilian wrote:
I've loathed PETA ever since they toured the nation with their propaganda display arguing that eating animals was akin to the Final Solution.

I like PETA for exactly the same reasons. There are so many morons who do not care at all about animal suffering that we absolutely need morons who are crusading for the other side of the coin. I even think we need more of the second category.

That being said.... seriously how many animals did suffer because of that film, and how the figure compares to what happens daily in the farms of complety uncaring people????
 
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Shadrach wrote:

Now I'm going to go get Chinese, because cats are tasty,


We don't eat cats. Maybe pandas, but only the uncute ones.
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There is no Dana, only Zuul
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HavocIsHere wrote:
Darilian wrote:
I've loathed PETA ever since they toured the nation with their propaganda display arguing that eating animals was akin to the Final Solution.

I like PETA for exactly the same reasons. There are so many morons who do not care at all about animal suffering that we absolutely need morons who are crusading for the other side of the coin. I even think we need more of the second category.

That being said.... seriously how many animals did suffer because of that film, and how the figure compares to what happens daily in the farms of complety uncaring people????


PETA is an animal RIGHTS organization, not an animal welfare organization. It's very important to understand the distinction because it impacts their motivation and actions. PETA's goal is to end all animal use...which means an end to many food products (eggs, milk, meat, etc), all animal products (goodbye leather, wool, etc), no pets (seriously), significant volumes of beneficial animal research, etc. They aren't really after improving the welfare of animals in industry - they're after ending all use of animals.

It would be worth taking the effort to actually look to the farm side of animals, instead of just reading PETA's take on it. Most farmers do care about their animals and are far more interested in welfare than propaganda would have you believe. The animals are their business - and it's in their interest to care about the animals (that was the point of individual farmers in movies like Food, Inc). Some of the things PETA would have you believe about the "evils" of farms and farmers is just misinformation and deliberate obfuscation to address their own agenda.
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